--------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTICE Some of our customers have been contacted by a gentleman named Ian Gomeche making insinuations about Phase8 and eu.com domain name. He often claims to work for the Observer or another national newspaper. If you are contacted by this man please note the time of the call and any other details and report them to the Managing Director of Phase8 who is liasing with the Police. --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- "IMPORTANT NOTICE: SWNS staff have been experiencing 'phone harassment from Ian Gomeche, who has also posted obscene and libelous messages in our Guest Book. This has resulted in the temporary removal of the Guest Book. We've made notes of each of his calls. We have also reported his activity to the Police." --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- hi. i'm 47 .own computer business. went to wymondham college 12 south norwich. planning to return norfolk soon. seperated.no children.graduate. looking for any pen-pals anywhere.like usual things gliding,music,photography,travel, cinema etc etc. Email: ian gomeche , aberdeen but returning norwich, scotland, u.k. Submitted: Sun, Aug 15, 1999, 6:39 pm (GMT) --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ian gomeche Date: Sun May 28, 2000 12:42pm Subject: daisychaining on parallel port not sure if this is a windows or hardware problem. i have an external iomega ditto 2gb tape drive. this is connected to parallel port. my hewlett packard 4l laser printer is then connected to the iomega. this arrangrement worked fine then started giving trouble. i had to connected them seperately one at a time to get them to work. i now find i have a similar problem with my other computer. this time i tried to daisy chain a scanner with the laser printer. again this would not work. i had to coonect them seperately. the scanner manual which is written in very bad pidgen english seem to suggest that i need to disable bi-directionality on the printer/printer cable and change one or two other things but i havent been able to much. any ideas anyone? is this a general windows/hardware problem ? or am i just getting some unlucky conflicts? regards ian gomeche --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.egroups.com/message/windows-98/5311? --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ian gomeche Date: Tue May 30, 2000 12:17pm Subject: daisy-chaining on parallel port and norton AV misbehaving (perhaps) paul < pwink@b... > gave some useful advice regarding the problems i was having daisy chaining on the parallel port. thanks for the help paul. i will try the things you suggest and then post the outcome in case it is of any help to anyone else. actually i have another problem which someone may have experienced . my email out is now not working. the IP address of my ISP POP3 mailbox has become corrupt. my ISP - Claranet (one of the U.K's largest) says this problem was caused by norton antivius which they say is well known for doing that. i do not know if they are bullshitting me or whether norton AV does that to the IP address (actually setting it to the IP address of my own machine) ian --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.egroups.com/message/windows-98/5327? --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ian gomeche Date: Wed May 31, 2000 12:46pm Subject: re: norton AV misbehaving (perhaps) thanks psalm and greg for the good advice. i will try your suggestions. i forgot to state i use internet explorer 5. it seems that the guys at claranet were not bullshitting and norton AV can be a bit overzealous if you let it ! regards ian --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.egroups.com/message/windows-98/5357? --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ian gomeche Date: Thu Jun 1, 2000 1:21pm Subject: 2 drives on windows 98 and motherboard replacement i had the problem of windows only recognising 8gb on my second hard drive (actually a 15gb IBM drive) this was, in fact ,NOT a windows problem but was due to my 3 year old bois and clearly stated in the bios manual. it may be possible to flash download a new bios but i decided not to take the risk as i can live with just 8gb for a while by which time i will need a new motherboad anyway as mine only supports a max processor speed of 225mhz BTW on the motherboard question, it is important to check max processor speed of any replacement board as too low a speed will probably make replacement not worth the hastle. Abit boards are particularly good, as apart from having a good name, they allow a wide 'multiplier' range which gives very interesting overclocking possibilities. one attractive option which several people have succesfully tried is to buy an Abit bp6? dual socket 370 board which costs little more than a single processor board. fit 2 celeron 366 (very cheap if you can find them) overclocked to 500 each. (500 each is max that the board will allow.) this will give an awesomely powerful system for relatively little cost. be sure to fit very high quality fans and heatsinks though! also not that windows 98 is a single processor system so will simply ignore second processor. windows 2000 though is a multiprocessor system hope this has not been discussed before as i am new to list ian --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- January 02, 2000 ian gomeche http://ikg.co.uk have just checked out the[this] neil innes site which erin told us about. see they have a whole section on the 'grimms' tour. i was sure the plastic duck was yellow - damn psychedilic drugs unless the pictures scanned wrongly. oh well, no matter. i remember the concerts better now. it was a mixed media concert with a lot of peoty reading etc. roger mcgough,brian pattern and mike mcgear were known as 'the liverpool poets' and produced a few books together. brian pattern's poems all seemed to about schoolgirls (nuff said) mike mcgear is the brother of paul mccartney. gorman was in 'the goodies' and 'tiswas' on tele. ian [palin] obquote: 'and what does a duck do?' ************************************** Now now, there's no need to bash perfectly good psychedilic drugs! The duck Neil wears on his head IS yellow, but for some reason the one on the cover of Rockin' Duck is red. Bonnie January 02, 2000 ian keith gomeche http://www.ikg.co.uk (not built yet) just visited this excellent site as reccommended by erin who is a member of my michael palin discussion list (not to be confused with the palin discussion list run by that imposter dina ely who keeps getting snottiy letters from anne james (palin's manager)) i attended the 'grimms' tour in 1972ish at bristol univ. i am a great admirer of the very underrated neil innes and paricularly like 'the ruttles' songs. very cleverly done. i lived very near keynsham near bath. keynsham is a small place with a fry's chocolate factory and that's it. it rose to fame and hence became the title of a bonzo's album due to the incessent adverts on radio luxemborg for 'the horrace batchelor infra-draw system to win the football pools' he always spelt out the name of keynsham where he lived. therefore everyone in the country knew of keynsham's existence but no one had a clue where it was ian --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Record 71 Name: ian gomeche Website: registered but still to be build Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: aberdeen formerly norwich Time: 1999-08-29 20:11:45 Comments: well. you havent emailed me yet. since i first visited your site i have received some 'old boys' newsletter thing from wy coll concerning 50th aniversary next year. myself and some mates from my year may go. my site will be a lot more boring than your's. it will be about my consultantcy business with perhaps a little personal stuff thrown it. i have registered the name through my ISP with internic or whoever so i had better get on and build it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Record 70 Name: ian gomeche Website: Referred by: Net Search From: aberdeen Time: 1999-08-13 21:36:28 Comments: i searched the meta search engine www.dogpile.com for wy coll as i went there 1963-1970. your site came up amongst several others. i like the music. i don't watch friends so dont know anything about it. i run a computer consultancy. my web site is under construction., --------------------------------------------------------------------- Record 69 Name: ian gomeche Website: Referred by: Net Search From: aberdeen Time: 1999-08-13 21:36:06 Comments: i searched the meta search engine www.dogpile.com for wy coll as i went there 1963-1970. your site came up amongst several others. i like the music. i don't watch friends so dont know anything about it. i run a computer consultancy. my web site is under construction., --------------------------------------------------------------------- Record 68 Name: ian gomeche Website: Referred by: Net Search From: aberdeen Time: 1999-08-13 21:37:52 Comments: i searched the meta search engine www.dogpile.com for wy coll as i went there 1963-1970. your site came up amongst several others. i like the music. i don't watch friends so dont know anything about it. i run a computer consultancy. my web site is under construction., --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.h2g2.com/A237665 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Entry Data ID: A237665 Editor: ian gomeche Date: 27 December 1999 researcher ian gomeche personal info i am a male 47 year old computer consultant and freelance investigative journalist. i own my own business, IKG associates. i live near aberdeen in scotland but plan to move back to east anglia soon. i went to school near norwich (the nicest city on the planet) and attended bristol university . i like music, mostly rock, driving, gliding, playing chess,, reading extensively. i play synthesisers, i am on the net a lot, too much really, which i use mostly for researching my news stories and email. why are there so many wally's attracted to some internet mailing lists? . the professional lists i am on are generally o.k. and of great value. i had some agro on a list devoted to michael palin recently. i have set up and took the top posters with me to my own palin list. anyone wanting to join please email or leave a message here. i was married but am now seperared. i have 1 cat. i am currently too busy to look for a new lady which i really must do something about. i think douglas adams is a great author and very nearly as good as tom clancy. who is this pratchett person anyway? ian ------ http://www.h2g2.com/FFM647?thread=21232&skip=300&show=20#p200833 ----- Subject: Sub-Editors wanted - Apply within Posted 25 Weeks ago by ian gomeche my name is ian gomeche (researcher 106837 untill i get round to changing it) . i am a 47 year old science graduate . i run my own computer consultancy and do freelance investigative journalism for the national and local press. i am very well read, am articulate and have a great sense of humour (well i think so). i have only just joined h2g2 so have not posted any guide entries yet apart from my personnal info entry . please email me on ian@ikg.co.uk and i will send you a brief c.v. i have been a douglas adams fan for ages and went to the H2G2 stage play thing (remember that?) ian 'life, love it, lothe it, you just can't ignore it' ---- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:00:39 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: spurious rubbish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEE992.D0E1AB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i have been a fan of al stewart since early 70's. as i have been a bit = out of touch with his recent work (he hardly ever tours in u.k. now - at = least compared to the earlier days). i therefore thought that i would = subscrible to the al stewart newsletter. to my annoyance i keep being = bonbarded with emails which have nothing much to do with mr. stewart. = please can i ask you all to keep postings to the newsletter RELEVANT or = find another more appropriate newsletter of which there are zillions. thank you ian gomeche --- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:15:45 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Guilty film pleasures (WAS:The Worst Records I Have Ever Heard) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: 19 August 1999 01:43 Subject: Re: Guilty film pleasures (WAS:The Worst Records I Have Ever Heard) o.k. i'm rat arsed now (can't hold my drink like i used to.) my favorourite films are (what the f*** has this to do with al what's-his-name? oh never mind DON'T bother to answer that.) 1. hunt for red octomer (tom clancy is the best thing to come out of america) 2. crimson tide (hackman and washington are ace) 3. jumping jack flash (its v. funny and i was the u.k. product manager of the very teminals in it - there's a lot of sperry product placement in it ) 4. enemy of the state (hackman again) 5. er 6. that it! ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:44:38 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: spurious rubbish - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 19 August 1999 02:31 Subject: Re: spurious rubbish > >i've only been on the list for 1 day for christ's sake. > > So you're making presumptions about the list after *1 day*? > > Al hasn't seriously toured the college circuit since HE was > approximately college age ... AND was living in the UK. It is > disappointing, but he just plain doesn't tour much of anywhere > any more, more for lack of demand then lack of desire on his > part. We're hoping this will change. > > -Kim > > lay off the sniping will you. you are getting tedious. i repeat yet again it is much harder to see him now in u.k. than it used to be when i used to see him all the time.i think that what conclusions i wish to draw about certain people (i.e. you) on your hallowed list are entirely up to me based on however long i need to make those assessments (which in your case was not long) the rest of your group seem to be pleasant friendly non-hostile people. now GET OFF MY BACK or you are going on the spam list. anyway you are talking crap. in the 70's and 80's he was forever doing the colleges even though he is much older than me. i saw him when i was at bristol univ in the eary 70's. many times (colston hall as the university concert hall was not big enough) having said all that ,there really is no useful point in people continually telling me what a w***er i am. i know that already. ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:18:40 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: freudian slip (2) of course, i do NOT fuck people around regards ian gomeche ikg associates ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:49:01 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: D.P. Sent: 20 August 1999 11:37 Subject: Re: Elves and Cornishmen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: D.P. > To: Al Stewart > Sent: 20 August 1999 04:37 > Subject: Re: Elves and Cornishmen > > > > Well, if he really is from Cornwall, that explains a > > lot (y'know, after the Irish the Cornish are > > considered most nuts as far as the Celts are > > concerned). But, since his sur-name doesn't begin > > with "Tre-" (as in Tremayne, Trelawny) I am just a tad > > bit suspicious. > > > > yep i really was born in st. dennis (little place half way betweet st. > austell > and newquay) i moved to london when i was 1. moved to norwich when four. i > still regard nowich as my home town which is why i knew bellamy (norwich has > a nice folk scene) i went to public school so like most people i have a > public school > accent but there is a trace of a norfolk accent in there somewhere. > knew steve well at bristol univ. my grand farther was frence hence the name > > i think i am reasonably tactful and friendly most of the time although i > admit > 'spurious rubbish' was probably not the best of headings for a first post. > it sure got people's attention though so perhaps it was. > > i just believe in calling a spade a spade. i think one can be direct with > people > but still be treating them with repect at the same time > > it sure beats the falseness of saying 'you my good sir are an arrogant > arshole' > > i actually got this sort of stuff. if only people realised how pompously > rediculous they appear perhaps they wouldnt. i don't suffer fools gladly. if > some one is trying > to put me down or make me seem small i tend to give as good as i get. i am > very well-read and informed and am an expert at the short sharp put-down. > > it's true though. i am an arrogant bastard but as i have an IQ 0f 150 and > take the trouble to be well-informed and highly educated i think that's > valid (if not always popular). with me WYSIWYG. i am a straight honest guy > who does fuck people around. if people can't cope with that then thats their > problem . > > i my not be a special personal friend of al stewart but i have been a big > fan for nearly 30 years. i therefore feel quallifed to express certain > opinions > > i don't consider myself to be particularly nuts > > some of you seem to worship kim (who incidentally has stopped giving me a > hard time ) one of you even refered to her as the the 'goddess' of the > group. > > i got lots of this 'how dare you attack our leader' stuff. the fact that she > attacked me first and wouldn't let go was conveniently overlooked. > thats up to you, of course, but all this veneration of her seems a bit iffy > to me. > she will be canonised long before mother theresa at this rate! > > right thats quite enough about me. who are you?. > > regards > > ian gomeche > > ikg associates ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:10:39 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Fw: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Jeff Richter Sent: 20 August 1999 14:10 Subject: Re: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen > i really don't want open this topic again up but i will say that i've had > several messages of 'support' from people in the group. some seem fed up > with the hegemony (their word) and actually quite like to see the politburo > (o.k. i know i spelt it wrong) > being challenged occasionally. remember all i did though was post a request > for mail to be on-subject. you people decided to make something of it. > > > right. you are now on my spam list as all you want to do is make nasty > attacks on me. > > BTW how old are you? just wondering. > > i will ignore any correspondence from you to the group. > > don't have a nice day ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:47:30 -0400 From: Steven Vest Subject: Henchmen (or finally a purpose to my life) Oooh Oooh !! I want to be one of Kim's henchmen! Can I carry the thermonuclear device and go around to someones flat and say "You've been a naughty boy Clemment." and nail their head to a table!? best, STeven (Dinsdale) ps:165 > some in group told me that kim was not the problem but her 'henchmen' > were something else. > > i assumed you are first lietenant ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:58:32 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Fw: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Jeff Richter Sent: 20 August 1999 14:58 Subject: Re: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Richter > To: ian gomeche > Sent: 20 August 1999 14:40 > Subject: Re: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen > > > > > > > > fuck off wanker > > > > > Now THAT'S the most intelligent thing you've said yet! Reasoned, logical > > debate. That's what I love about the ASML. > > > > JSR > > > nah. short sharp put-down. no point in wasting reasoned logical debate on > narrow -minded > bigots like youself > > ikg ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:50:46 -0700 (PDT) From: steve hall sydney aust Subject: Elves and Cornishmen - ---stephen shea wrote: > > SCOTT: > LOVER MAN WAS AN INGENIOUS HUMEROUS SONG.I THINK IT IS AMONG THE BEST > STEVE > I don't mind Lover Man, and I rather like the Elf (my wife Susan loves it), but then I'm one of those people mentioned recently that likes almost everything Al has done. And on another note, I must confess that I'm the old university colleague that did indeed attend the same Chemistry courses as the already infamous IKG (and yes, I do indeed remember you now Ian - assuming my Dennis the Menace [UK version] analogy is correct) at Bristol Uni, and by a strange co-incidence I also worked for Unisys, although here in Oz. But he's from Cornwall and lives in Scotland, and I don't suppose anyone up there can understand a word he says, so I'm sure he gets frustrated by that. I'm not sure, but I think plonker, one of Ian's favourite descriptive words, is an old Cornish dish made with meat and potato, shaped somethink like a Beef Wellington. Love Steve ---- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:28:05 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: html postings This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BEE9D1.52C2FE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable on a (fairly) serious technical note. what is the best way to deal with = html posting in outlook express 5? (this is the first time i have EVER = received html email and as a consultant i guess i show know) what i am = doing is saving these messages as text and then opening them but there = must be something within outlook express to tell it to view these things = sensibly and not just as a white page. o.k. back to discussing the deeper philosophical things in life. my = somewhat tongue-in-cheek view is that monsieur stewart is just a = piss-artist who does not take himself too seriously and just likes = having a good time. as my wife use to say 'hang the sense of it all and = just stay amused' or 'life is just an illusion caused by a lack of of = alcohol' or in mr. stewart's case .. a lack of chateau mouton = rothschild 1971 (see i know my wine) my wife's father had his own wine = company and taught me a thing or two so there! regards ian gomeche ikg associates ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:21:55 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: spurious rubbish - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: 19 August 1999 00:06 Subject: Re: spurious rubbish > >i have been a fan of al stewart since early 70's. as i have been a bit > >out of touch with his recent work (he hardly ever tours in u.k. now - at > >least compared to the earlier days). > > Funny. He tours over there every year recently. He'll in the UK and > Belgium for almost the entire month of November. > > >i therefore thought that i would subscrible > >to the al stewart newsletter. to my annoyance i keep being bonbarded with > >emails which have nothing much to do with mr. stewart. please can i ask > >you all to keep postings to the newsletter RELEVANT or find another more > >appropriate newsletter of which there are zillions. > > YOU, sir, are the one who found the wrong newsgroup. The postings you > are finding ARE relevant. We have managed, as we are, for many years > now. We discuss Al when there is Al relevent material to discuss ... when > he is touring, when he is recording, when he has appeared in a wine > publication again. Other times, we cement our commuity of Al fans by > having reasonably intelligent discussions about a myriad of topics. At > times these have nothing to do with Al. At times, they are related to Al > only peripherally ... how his favorite music compares to what we like for > example. (We know he likes They Might Be Giants for instance. And there > are a good many people here who share that admiration.) Sometimes the > topics are related to the topics of his song, like a discussion of a new > Josephine Baker biography for example .... or did he use "Amy Johnson" > because "Beryl Markham" may be even MORE obscure to the average US > listener. > > I don't notice YOU contributing any "relevent" threads. You know what? > Unless Al gets a sudden rash of shows I don't know about it probably > ISN'T going to get real "on topic" until the EK/Belgium tour starts in > November. We've hashed Tiger tanks absolutely to death about 6 years > ago. > > We recommend books and music to eachother in addition to drooling over > Al's work. And it is because we, in general, are NOT obcessed loonies > with no interests in life outside Al that he doesn't run screaming for > the exit when he spies a member of the "black shirt" contingent. You > have your choice, sir. You can either get off your high horse, pull up a > chair, pour yourself a nice glass of wine and join in ... or find another > group that *is* obcessed enough with Al to keep it totally on topic for > years on end. Even AL isn't that obcessed with Al. > > -- Kim >there is nothing funny about the fact that he used to EXTENSIVELY do the college circuit in u.k. but does only a few dates (relatively) here now. his autumn schedule has only a very few dates in u.k. as for me not contributing any relevant threads i've only been on the list for 1 day for christ's sake. i am sorry to have upset you but i still feel my request was valid assuming that this IS an al stewart newsletter. BTW its spelt 'obSessed' have a nice day ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:48:13 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: spurious rubbish - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: 19 August 1999 00:06 Subject: Re: spurious rubbish You > have your choice, sir. You can either get off your high horse, pull up a > chair, pour yourself a nice glass of wine and join in ... or find another > group that *is* obcessed enough with Al to keep it totally on topic for > years on end. Even AL isn't that obcessed with Al. > > -- Kim > funnily enough i have just opened a bottle of Baron Phillipe de Rothschild (really) so i'll drink to your health. can we now cut all the pompous sir bit? as we are on the subject of high horses? thanks p.s. his nearest u.k. date to me is about 500 miles away and the transport system in u.k. is crap compared with u.s. so one has to be pretty obSessed to do it for one concert (which i'm not). it would take me about 10 hours to drive it by vastly exceeding the speed limit which as i have 2 speeding endorsements is not a very good idea. ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:15:24 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: spurious rubbish - ----- Original Message ----- From: Laura Gharazeddine To: ian gomeche ; Sent: 19 August 1999 01:05 Subject: Re: spurious rubbish > > BTW its spelt 'obSessed' > > > > have a nice day > > Well, if we're going to be picky about it-it's not "its" (plural)-it's > "it's"-contraction for "it is". > > I'll overlook the "boNbarded", as that could have merely been a typo in the > heat of passion? (On my key board, m and n are indistiguishable as the > letters (plural) are worn away. (Note the punctuation and capitalization. > Something I have noted a lack of in email in general.) > > Have a nice day, back at you, Ian. > > And welcome to the ASML! > > Laura G. > > > >yeah, it'sa amazing really. although i have been working with computers for 30 years and have been sent on hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of computer courses i have never learn to type properly. i still type with 1 finger. i'm pretty lazy about the grammatical niceties which for emails do not matter too much except when i'm writing to a client. actually i mis-spelt Philippe as in Baron thereof (i just checked on the bottle) but generally my spelling is fairly good. ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 03:07:11 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: spurious rubbish - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 19 August 1999 02:31 Subject: Re: spurious rubbish > >p.s. his nearest u.k. date to me is about 500 miles away and the transport > >system in u.k. is crap compared with u.s. so one has to be pretty obSessed > >to do it for one concert (which i'm not). it would take me about 10 hours > >to drive it by vastly exceeding the speed limit which as i have 2 speeding > >endorsements is not a very good idea. > > BWAH-hah-hah-hah-hah. > > Oh, I just love it when people from outside the US think we actually have a > decent transport system. The public transit system in the UK, the Netherlands, > and elsewhere in Europe is so vastly superior it makes me want to cry. I fear > you really don't know how good you have it. About the only place I can see > where the US *might* have an advantage over the UK is signage on the major > highways in the larger cities, and that is probably only because I'm used to > ours. (Of course, ours also usually includes "detour" or "construction next > 10 miles" when you are in a hurry.) > > A fair number of the US fans on this list are in the same boat as far as 500 > mile > drives go ... I think that is the closest Al has been to me in recent memory. > I had > some money and time last year, so seeing Al resulted in a little silver > luggage > tag for me. GOD I love how nice the reservation agents are on the phone > when > that little flag comes up on their computer. The Australians and New > Zealanders would probably consider trading certain favorite body parts for > a show within 500 miles. Please. When some many of us are starving out > here, you can't expect sympathy when you are fussing about what KIND of cake > you have been served. Until the earth slides sideways on it's axis, and Al > has > another multi-platinum selling album, I don't think we can hope for a really > major tour again. > > -- Kim > god you really don't give up do you. o.k. its on to the spam list. now pi** off. i never asked for your sympathy just trying to answer your challenges to everything i say.i expect that i was into al stewart while you were still in short trousers. havent you got anything better to do like homework or whatever rather than trying to discredit everything i write? ---- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:05:40 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: Re: spurious rubbish Although much of the anger and bitterness seems to have already gone out of this particular thread, I have to get in my 2 cents worth (What, me disagreeable?) or I'll never be able to sleep tonight. First off, Kim, WOW, that's the hardest I've seen you slap anybody down in a LONG time... Very impressive. Rough day at the office? The Kim is Al is Bill post may have something... As to Ian: i am sorry to have upset you but i still feel my request was valid assuming > that this IS an al stewart newsletter. If you've really been on the list only one day, that's all the MORE reason why I find your original post INCREDIBLY presumptive, arrogant and obnoxious. (and let me also say that I *DO* appreciate your later apology - But still...) As the late lamented Bill Kerr once put it (and Kim let you off easy compared to the new one HE would have ripped you, believe me), it takes a lot of nerve to come flouncing in with your hands on your hips and tell us we're doing it wrong when you haven't been around long enough to know WHAT we're doing... First off, it's NOT a newsletter, it's a mailing list. It's been around for YEARS and doing just fine (I've been here since 1995 and I'm NOT an old-timer compared to many of the people on this list). If you don't like it, start your own damn list, don't tell us to change our ways. That having been said, I hope you'll stick around and come to enjoy the traffic here. It's a nice place. JSR ---- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:28:59 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: Re: spurious rubbish ian gomeche wrote: > > god you really don't give up do you. o.k. its on to the spam list. now pi** > off. i never asked for your sympathy just trying to answer your challenges > to everything i say.i expect that i was into al stewart while you were still > in short trousers. havent you got anything better to do like homework or > whatever > rather than trying to discredit everything i write? I take back what I said about hoping you stick around - you're an asshole. If you would BOTHER to find out what's going on here before shooting off your mouth, you would realise that, for all intents and purposes, Kim *IS* the ASML. Are your personal friends with Al? She is. Want to get hold of official Al-Stewart-Owned honest-to-god Gold records? Guess who you'll have to work through. You Pinhead. Sorry to stick my nose in here Kim, but this guy has really ticked me off. I actually deleted a LOT of this message so it wouldn't be too negative. JSR ---- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:26:47 -0700 (PDT) From: markjm@pacbell.net (Mark J. Moerman) Subject: Re: Spurious Rubbish >>what are capitals? OH YOU MEAN SHOUTING. No, I mean normal capitalization, which is considered customary and polite on every mailing list I've ever been a part of. Thus far, though, politeness doesn't really seem to be your strong suit. Ian, you came one to this list and immediately complained. The first time any of us ever were aware of your existence was when you were telling us off for the very thing that makes this list the community that it is, our off-topic ramblings on topics which over time have proven to be of interest to most of us. You could have just asked nicely why that was, or you could made some off-line inquiries about how this list operates, but instead you chose to announce your presence with a shower of belligerence and criticism. I can guarantee you that what Kim said to you was the same as what many of us were thinking -- she just got there first. Perhaps she phrased it a little more strongly than others might have done, but you can be certain that the essence of her comments could have come from any number of people on this list. FOR THE UMPTEENTH F***ING TIME KIM >STARTED BADMOUTHING ME FIRST. BUT THATS O.K. BECAUSE SHE IS A PERSONAL >FRIEND OF MR. STEWART. (GOD) SO THATS O.K. I AM NOT IMPRESSED OR BOTHERED BY >SCORN FROM PLONKERS. I think it's safe to say that you've now succeeded in annoying just about everyone on the list. Just what do you hope to accomplish by taking such a tone? Regardless of what you think of other posts aimed at you, my message, while critical of you, was far from inflammatory, and yet you found it necessary to reply in a hot-headed manner which serves no constructive purpose and only makes you seem like even more of a boor than you did before. Mark ---- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:08:07 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: re : spurious rubbish last word hopefully but i doubt it excuse dark background. this is my normal backgroud which i normally change to white for emails as some people have difficulty reading. for some reason today outlook will not let me change it . anyway i would like to apologize to those of you whom i have upset. as i think i already explained the list was given to me by charlie. i assumed this to be a weekly (perhaps) posting wilh al stewart news. i did not expect emails to come flying from all directions on all manner of topics. as initially most of these came from 1 person i incorrectly assumed that this was 1 misguided soul jamming my in t ray. of course i now realise all too well that that is the way you want to do things. having said all that ,there really is no useful point in people continually telling me what a w***er i am. i know that already. i think that my off-subject ramblings have shown that i now accept this and therefore withdraw my original complaint . i guess i should have lurked for a while but the sheer volume of incoming mail was getting out hand. on a newsgroup one can lurk without this problem. i think it is reasonable for me to defend myself agaist continual vitreolic attacks from certain individuals (you know who you are - no names no packdrill). after all if you continually dish it out you should be able to take. i have already made some friends in this group and wouldn't mind coming along for the ride, for a while at least. but if you all decide to sling me out then that's your perogative although hardly very democratic, i have already re-established contact with an old university colleague (although he does not seem to remember me) right! i think thats enough on all this. please don't continually nit-pick e,g. if i say it is harder to see mr. stewart now in u.k. then it used to be that is a statement of fact not a winge. let's not get into the monty python thing where you all try to outdo each other on how awful life is/was. o.k. for those of you who want to to continue to talk to me, you know where i am. the rest of you can ,well........ what would mr. stewart make of all this. i guess i should point out that i have already raised(re-raised) some valid points e.g. html thing, x days to what,whether prospective new members should be made welcome or driven out .i have subscribed to the digest regards ian gomeche ikg associates. ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:27:03 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Fw: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Jeff Richter Sent: 20 August 1999 15:26 Subject: Re: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen > > > > > > > jeff richter wrote: > > > > > > I'm an Oracle DBA, by the way. I used to work on a Unisys system > early on > > in my career - actually a couple of old Burroughs b-1900 boxes, but they > > changed the > > name. DMS-II was the first database I was responsible for. Not a bad > > little hierarchical system, for its day. > > > > > > > > > > > > actually i've reconsidered. i'm in a good mood today. if you stop attacking > me personally (if i post something daft or factually incorrect - that's > fair game. BTW today's post > was not daft whatever you might think. self-indulgent perhaps. - but then i > really shouldn't have to keep defending myself from people like you. it gets > kind of boring.) > > anyway, if you stop the attacks i'll continue talking to you and let you buy > me a drink in london . > > i have always specialised in databases. at rolls royce one of IBM's biggest > european sites i specialised in IMS (hierarcical) > > at unisys (on the sperry side) i was a specialist in DMS 1100 (codasyl) > > i gave client courses ,designed Met police Command and conrtol DB ,that kind > of thing. spent a lot of time ruuning benchmarks,optimising existing client > DB's (like you do) > > since then i have done a lot with relationals such as Oracle,sybase,sql etc. > > i plan to teach myself IBM DB2 because as a consultant i really should know > it. > > > regards > > ian gomeche > > ikg associates ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:39:44 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: swindow town one of life's great mysteries is how can a guy be so obsessed for 30 years with swindon town football club? when i was at university with steve nearly that long ago that is ALL he would talk about (except occassionaly for 'whose turn is it to roll the next one?') ' when he introduced himself to me 2 days ago what were my first thoughts? his brilliant chemistry skills? (he had none) his friendly nature? (he was good fun actually) NO ...it was SWINDON BLOODY TOWN !!!! (and this is after 27 years) at university i had assumed it was a phase which he would grow out of but no such luck the postings to this group shows that he's as obsessed as ever i mean swindon is not one of our ' geat' teams like manchester united or liverpool. what division are they in steve? third? forth? fifth? for those of you who don't know, swindon is a sleepy town in the west of england where NOTHING happens except that swindon gets beaten every home game in it's heyday in about 1860 it was the engineering centre of the great western railway. in fact swindon WAS the great western railway. but that was then. what's its claim to fame now steve? damned if i know! ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:08:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeff Richter" Subject: Re: Al the ASMLer? Pete wrote: > > **** > >Is this true? Did Al ever, used to, peek into what is > >going on here on ASML??? > > > >--Diane > > I think he was on for one day before Kim and > Bill Kerr chased him out! > > Yeah, he kept posting off-topic stuff, and we weren't about to put up with THAT, now were we? And when discussing Kim's lackeys and minions, we can't forget about her evil twin, Skippy. Anyway, thanks Pete, you get my vote for the funniest post of the year. And on a semi-related note, I'd like to say that Ian and I have made up (We have, haven't we? Ian? Ian?) BUT, The post that has been quoted a few times this afternoon ("F*** off, wanker") was directed at me by Ian, I posted a private reply to him, which he posted back publicly to the list. I'd just like to go on record as sayign that it was not my intention to have those types of vulgarities re-promulgated to the list - I have a whole different set of vulgarities that I use in that situation. 1st Lieutenant JSR ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:43:47 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Al the ASMLer? jeff richter wrote: > And on a semi-related note, I'd like to say that Ian and I have made up > (We have, haven't we? Ian? Ian?) > > BUT, > > The post that has been quoted a few times this afternoon ("F*** off, > wanker") was directed at me by Ian, I posted a private reply to him, which > he posted back publicly to the list. I'd just like to go on record as > sayign that it was not my intention to have those types of vulgarities > re-promulgated to the list - I have a whole different set of vulgarities > that I use in that situation. > > > 1st Lieutenant JSR > > i posted my later reply including the earlier expletives to the group as jeff's original comments which sparked the expletives were public so i felt that was fair enough generally i reply privately to private posts unless there is a joke or non-personal comment which i think might interest the group. yeah. it does seem we have made up jeff even if you did work on those trashy burroughs machines (sperry rules o.k.) actually they were thinking of calling the merged company 'rabbit computers' as all the managers seemed to come out of burrows (very sore point with the sperry'ers) ikg ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:53:28 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Rudeness (is better kept off-list) D.P. wrote: > > Yeah, if you guys are going to be that vulgar and > rude, please keep it off-list. Ian needs to be taught > about that. I am sure that Kim will tell him how to > do it (you simply reply just to the sender, instead of > to the whole list... it is not that difficult, but > does take a couple more seconds of your time). > yeah well i stand corrected. yawn yawn. it's incredible really. everone rips into me for 2 days .no-one cares about this newbie being given an excessively hard time, al stewart uses the f word in love chronicles and presumably thats o.k. i use the word ONCE and some of you throw purple fits! all seems a bit hypocrical if you ask me. i won't swear publically again o.k. promise. now will you not tell miss kim how naughty i was? please,i don't want to do detention after school . ikg ---- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:26:53 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: swindon town actually after considerable thought i rememered a claim to fame for swindon. mellinda messenger lives there!. who is she you may well ask? the pouting ms. messenger is one of our more famous 'page 3 girls' discovered by that tabloid pillar of respectability 'the sun'. she is featured extensively sans clothes in the sun and that other organ of good taste (not) the 'daily star' to see what i mean visit www.megastar.co.uk (the daily star's site) where i believe she has her own pages . also see www.currantbun.co.uk (cockney rhyming slang) for the sun's great and glorious home page no doubt some of will complain that this is very sexist and non PC but i mention it only out of acedemic interest ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:17:07 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen - A clarification - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Richter To: Sent: 20 August 1999 23:22 Subject: Re: Fw: Elves and Cornishmen - A clarification > > > > > some of you seem to worship kim (who incidentally has stopped giving me a > > > > hard time ) one of you even refered to her as the the 'goddess' of the > > > > group. > > > > > > > > i got lots of this 'how dare you attack our leader' stuff. > > I posted the essence of the following privately to Ian this morning, > thought I'd repost to the list just to clarify for any others who may > have misinterpreted. > > I was the one who posted that "Kim is the ASML". I don't know if that > is being paraphrased as "goddess" or if somebody else posted to Ian > privately. > > Although I may not have made it clear, I was specifically referring to > the fact that Ian had said that he was putting Kim on his "spam list", > which would pretty much defeat the purpose that he said he was > attempting to accomplish, which was to clear his mailbox for the > "newletter"-type posting, since most, if not all of, the concert dates > and such come directly from Kim's email address. I was not trying to > imply that she was our "leader", or we her loyal subjects. Not that I'm > not fond of you Kim, honest! > > I mean, if you get right down to it, MUFFY is the ASML. She's the one > running the list! > > JSR > no, someone actually DID use the word goddess albeit in quotes.several of you used similar expressions. i mentioned the spam list to kim in the same way as i mentioned it to jeff. if i think personal attacks on me are going round in circles then that is the best way for me to stop wasting time repealing them. it was nothing to do with clearing my mailbox of clutter. in fact, as both of you seem to have stopped attacking me there has been no need for me to do this . ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:45:17 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: swindon town - ----- Original Message ----- From: Laura Gharazeddine To: ian gomeche ; Sent: 21 August 1999 05:07 Subject: Re: swindon town > I particularly enjoyed your choice of the word "organ" included in this > subject and this posting-freudian slip 3? > > Laura G. no actually it is used to describe publications. it is an archaic word no longer used. it is used however in the brilliant satirical magazine 'private eye' which always has a spoof editorial from the 'owner' of a fictional paper called lord gnome . private eye is very influential and has exposed many scandals which other papers are scarred to touch because the libel laws in u.k. are toughest in world. (i have done a journalism course so i know what i talking about) anyway as a result private eye is always being sued. it was owned by the comedian peter cook who used to do 'pete and dud ' with dudley moore whom you all know. the eye as it is called is well worth a look .they take the piss out of everybody. it is a combination of serious investigative journalism and biting satire. it is not always that easy to tell the spoof stories from real ones. visit www.private-eye.co.uk to peruse some back issues. essex-man wayne (laura knows who i mean) reads the daily star and the sun he like the fact that there are no long words and lots of pictures of melinda (the architypal 'blonde' laura) he cuts the pictures of melinda out and puts them on the walls of his council house. the star site is worth a vist to give you an idea of the compete naff-ness of british tabloid journalism. very jingoiistic,laddish (as in 'pwoooor look at the size of those') and more concerned with what melinda had for breakfast (who melinda had for breakfast) than minor details like serious news the fact that the sun is the top selling daily and its sister paper the news of the world (known in the press as the news of the screws) the top selling sunday says a lot about the great british public the star site again is www.megastar.co.uk definitely good for a laugh ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:25:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Goodbye - ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Hughey To: Al Stewart Sent: 21 August 1999 05:45 Subject: Re: Goodbye > She sends a message with her very own f**k to tell us that she's leaving > because some was rude and insensitive enough to send a message with a word > like f**k? > > Wow. > i'm very glad you raised that point. i used the word once (in extremis). since then the word has been repeated again and again and again. perhaps the 'statistician' can tell us how many times it appeared today by 'outraged' members of the group. stewart uses it (c.f. love chronicles) what more can i say.diane has used it several times publically and heaven knows how many times privately.if it really offended you why not just 'look the other way' and get on with something else. i have already said i won't use it again in public. i have been told that several brits have been driven away - i can see why. as mr. stewart is british that is pretty ironic. diane is still doing her best to get me hung drawn and quartered. incidentally if you want to REALLY upset a scot and risk serious physical harm tell them that william wallace got of lightly (first offence) ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:11:21 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Part 1: The HTML ASML - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Miller To: Sent: 21 August 1999 07:45 Subject: Re: Part 1: The HTML ASML > > Okay, now that the subject has been broached by someone else, one of my > > pet peeves has come up on the ASML. That is, the needless posting of > > HTML email messages. > > Posting HTML is not only bad manners, and a waste of bandwidth it > can be quite dangerous. There are several agressive javascript scripts > and java applets that can be executed if you are willing to run HTML > mail through a browser. > > Plain text mail is about he safest thing you can do on a computer, let's > keep it that way. > > Ray > -- > http://home.clara.co.uk/rmns > Slither Ring - http://home.clara.co.uk/rmns/swr.htm > Eggbert Web Ring - http://home.clara.co.uk/rmns/ewr.htm yeah i'll second that. i am a member of the british computer society security special interest group. this topic come up quite often and there are several 'chain letters' doing the rounds telling you that if you open certain emails terrible things will happen. plain text which is what a 'normal' email is can not DO anything. an attachment containing an executable on the other hand could theretically DO anything. html is the same. ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:27:37 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: re: bedsitter images etc. alex hollis wrote: > > ... But I remember you saying something about the folk > scene in Norwich. Now I'm not much into folk in general. Still puzzles me > why Al Stewart's described as folkie... The Norwich gig I went to was a punk > gig - the UK Subs. > > > > > > al started out playing the folk clubs in the mid/late sixties (the troubadour alluded to in clifton in the rain - where i had a flat - it did rain a lot 35inches a year - was THE bristol folk venue). i never actually went there as i have never really gone in for folkies. soonish (69?, 70?) al went electric and added the band and moved more mainsteam- folk/rock you could say. by the time i was seeing him in early 70's he was getting to be very big on the college circuit and had really stopped playing small folk clubs like the troubadour and was usually playing colston hall which is bristol's main concert hall. his songs (bed-sitter images, love chronicles etc. meant that he really identified with students and they with him and he was very popular with us. he was getting to be more well known generally however . i understant that YOTC was al's big break in the states. although it was a (minor) hit single here it's effect was not so significant here as ,as i have said, he already had a huge following particulary with students. like me. those student 'grew up' and became MOR so that is why his following here is mainly 40/50 year olds. the folk scene here was quite seperate from mainsteam (the martin carthy finger in the ear cliche) 2 groups did much to move folk mainsteam- fairport convention (whom i think did backing on love chronicles under assumed names for contractual reasons) and steeleye span . see 'rock family trees' vol1 by pete frame - the tree 'resolving the fairport confusion'. as i said traditionalists tended to dissaprove of stewart,fairport,span etc. but that is silly really because they did much to bring folk to a much wider audience. al left his folk roots behind a long time ago (60's) so it is not really apppriatre to call him a 'folkie' now but many people here would still class him as such particularly those who remember the early days. he is one of the guys (like jethro tull) who seems to get life-long fans. most younger people here probably have not even heard of him i really got into to the norwich folk scene because norwich is a small place where everyone knows everyone . i knew pete finch as he was at bristol univ with me . he knew peter bellamy whom he used to play with at alex atterson's club and so it goes round. al seems to have 'gone out of fashion' here . ian anderson of jethro tull said that the same thing happened to them when punk came along although they still have a very dedicated following amongst my generation.it certainly became the thing for the music press here to attack people like stewart and tull or just ignore them. farport convention are brilliant (technically they have split but they play a big annual reunion mini-festival each summer in their home town of cropedry in oxfordshire . i keep meaning to go but never get round to. they have loads of guest stars (masses of well know people have been connected with the band during their many line-ups) - perhaps al has guested - think i would have heard about it if he had. he certainly would know most of them if you don't mind i'll post this to the group as it might be of general interest , if only to introduce people to fairport convention and steeleye span. i was at univ with cathy hart ,the sister of tim hart from steeleye span whom al would certainly know.steeleye kept closer to their folk roots than fairport but were nearly as popular hope this was of interest. regards ian gomeche ikg associates ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:55:25 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: ASML manuscripts (VESI) > The only up side is that we've now proven the US doesn't have a monopoly > on these things. > ho hum i think i understand what you are saying? i did not personally offend sean wickerly whom i had not even heard of she chose to take offence at a word i used to another person. i think that makes a difference. lets move on to something else. anyway, now i am going to have to explain what it was like living in scotland when that holywood fantasty 'braveheart' came out. i actually enjoyed the film and saw it twice. i went off and researched wallace's background which bore little resemblace to the plot. sure the english treated the scots badly but they are now getting their own back with the call by the SNP for independence. i nearry complained to the CRE (campaign racial equality) about all the anti-english abuse and vandallism i have been getting. having said that i have many scots friends.who laughed at the joke. i admit it was in poor taste and totally non pc. but it was a TIC joke. i am certain that al stewart would be amused and not take it seriously. ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:06:37 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: Re: ASML manuscripts (VESI) SMorris wrote: > > >From Blake: > > > >> Such are the riches that vituperation, egotism, selfishness and > > >> intolerance have driven off the list forever...ah. well... > > Perhaps the specific examples weren't appropriate but the general > thesis certainly holds water. > > Take a trawl through the digest archives from autumn 1997 and > see how many contributors were lost through VESI then. (This isn't > directed at you Jeff - I can't remember whether you were involved > or not.) > > Perhaps there is an unlimited ocean of Al Stewart fans out there. > Perhaps the list can afford to offend, insult or bore people into > leaving in truckloads. > > I would have thought not. > Which is (sort of) my point. I'm generally against offending and insulting people (with certain exceptions). I would speculate (with absolutely no evidence to back me up, of course) that more people leave due to boredom than those other things combined. I stick around because I like getting the updates and I find the general tenor of the discussion interesting (I'm a very dull person, so boring doesn't bother me as much as some others). But you have to admit, it does get repetitive. Every three months or so there's a flame war about something. Every two or three months we're describing (once again) what SLAGIATT is and how to get it. Every couple months there's a thread about the relative merits (or lack thereof) of Al's masterpiece, Hipposong. Every few months a newcomer to the list whines about off-topic posts and the cocktail party analogy is once again dragged out. Then there's the sports debate for whichever sport is in season. Even the "Is Al on the ASML?" thread has been done several times in the past. As I said in an earlier post, yawn. Excluding the lurkers, I have noticed that some of the people who have left after making a post about how they are tired of the bickering are in many cases the same ones who have not exactly been shy about working their personal beliefs and/or politics into some of their posts to the list, at least tangentially. I usually figure they just got tired of having their opinions challenged or get their feelings hurt easily. I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. [...attention - gratuitous insult ahead...] I'll give Ian credit, he doesn't back down, [...here it comes...] even when he is clearly in the wrong! [...okay, move along, nothing left to see here...] I've been insulted about as much as anybody on this list over the past few years - I like hipposong, which has gotten me my share of hatemail. I even was called a Nazi for suggesting that it would be wrong to (further) restrict guns in the US without amending the constitution first. (okay, that's a gross oversimplification of THAT little flareup, but that's the way I remember it, and I'm gonna stick to my story...) JSR ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:48:41 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: ASML manuscripts (VESI) jeff ricter wrote : . [...attention - gratuitous insult > ahead...] I'll give Ian credit, he doesn't back down, [...here it > comes...] even when he is clearly in the wrong! [...okay, move along, > nothing left to see here...] fair point i worry a bit (only a bit) that people will drive me away for being boring rather that because of my direct language. i'll shut up soon and take a few days out. o.k. so i knew bellamy etc. nothing wrong with saying that ,is there?. i'm not claiming him as a close personal friend or anything . i will definitely live to regret the IQ reference though. don't know what possessed me to say it. never have done so before. perhaps it will come back to haunt me from deja-news or whatever in my old age. i just felt some of you were trying to make me appear stupid. ikg ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:03:36 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: bill kerr actually i just remembered now why i said the I.Q. thing (must get some sleep sometime). i'd thought i'd 'play up' to the arrogant bastard label. perhaps you lot will present me with the bill kerr memorial trophy for obnoxiousness. i'd like to have 'met' this guy as i've heard so much about him. i feel that i know him already. perhaps i am him (how can you tell in cyberspace) when i think back 3 days to when i thought 'yeah, i'll subscribe to that and perhaps get the odd weekly email telling me what al is doing now)'.. well this cerainly have turned out rather differently. ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:12:10 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: My two cents whats this email address of yours then? americanembassy.freeserve.co.uk our 'cousins' aren't that stapped for cash that goverment departments are now on freeserve ?. a u.k. ISP ? (although i suppose they would be in london) do tell all. must be a wind-up surely ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:17:32 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: My two cents mark wrote: > >> > Yeah, I'm feeling a bit thick about this. When I first saw Scott's postings I > didn't read the e-mail address properly and thought "Hey, there's some geezer > from the American embassy on the list" It wasn't until Scott mentioned that > he was in Coventry that I kinda twigged that maybe the Americans wouldn't > need a consulate there. It was only then that I noticed the Freeseve ISP. > Pretty neat address though. > > Mark > i wonder if scot has had any snotty letters from grovener square. dont get paranoid scot but a white van with lots of aeriels just pulled up outside you house! ikg ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:01:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: the f word just looked at the amazon review. reminded me. in the army this NCO was discussing a gun which was jammed what he actually yelled was " f*** !, the f***ing f***er's f***ed!" thisis true apparently and shows a remarkable understanding of the english languague. to use the same word as an expletive, an adjective, a noun and a verb all in one sentence must be some kind of record. toodle pip ikg now THAT must be worth a flame or six! ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:43:11 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: VESI can anyone tell me what VESI stands for as it is used by some people in connection with recent agro? its not in my useless email slang dictionary. NIFOC is though. the mind boggles. thanks ian p.s. posting a lot today cos we get very cheap rates at weekend. you can always bin it! ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:15:30 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: the f word greg dunphy wrote: > > > > . in the army this NCO was discussing a gun which was jammed > > > > what he actually yelled was " f*** !, the f***ing f***er's f***ed!" > > > > > > now THAT must be worth a flame or six! > > Sorry Ian, no flames for that one. It's sheer poetry. And, yes I am > reading you postings. You deserve a second chance and some lattitude for > being a newbie. Pax Vobiscum. > > Gregg > thank you! (bit worried that the moral majority were going to go bonkers!) ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:37:45 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: the f word - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann or Gregg Dunphy To: ian gomeche Cc: Sent: 22 August 1999 00:26 Subject: Re: the f word > ian gomeche wrote: > > > ...(bit worried that the moral majority were going to go bonkers!) > > > > ian > > Since I'm neither, no worries on my account. > > Gregg > i should point for you colonials who speak your own version of english that while 'going bonkers ' can mean 'going nuts' i actually meant it in it's other sense as in 'throwing a purple fit' e.g. i'm leaving this group becuse you are rude ,uncooth, bad-mannered,childish etc. etc. you get the idea o.k. now? good ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:52:46 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: My two cents sylvia wrote: > I've been trying Freeserve and it's really not too bad. > I'm almost impressed enough to stay with it. > > Thanks to Pontus auf den Wittensee I didn't have > a lot of trouble with the unique email address. > > Long story. > > Sylvia > here we are having a VERY serious discussion about whether scot is a russian spy or not and you start going on about the merits of ISP's. i mean, come on! ian ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: steve hall sydney aust Subject: Re: Al the ASMLer? - ---ian gomeche wrote: > yeah. it does seem we have made up jeff even if you did work on those > trashy burroughs machines (sperry rules o.k.) actually they were thinking of > calling the merged company 'rabbit computers' as all the managers seemed to > come out of burrows (very sore point with the sperry'ers) > > ikg I worked for Burroughss before and after the merger. On the Internet you can't tell, of course, but I have a minor speech impediment - like many Poms I can't say my r's pwoperly. So when I used to give presentations, I had to say "Hi, I'm Steve Hall fwom Buwwows. When I heard we were merging with Spewwy, I was weally worried I'd have to stand up and say "Hi, I'm Steve Hall fwom Spewwy-Buwwows." So I was weally glad when they chose the name Unithyth. (Of course, that story is much better live - I use it to introduce presentations to this day) Love & kittheth Steve ---- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:54:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "D.P." Subject: Re: Goodbye Wrong. What Ian said below is a total lie. - --Diane. - --- ian gomeche wrote: > i used the word > once (in extremis). > since then the word has been repeated again and > again and again. > perhaps the 'statistician' can tell us how many > times it appeared today > by 'outraged' members of the group. stewart uses it > (c.f. love chronicles) > what more can i say.diane has used it several times > publically and heaven > knows > how many times privately.if it really offended you > why not just 'look the > other way' > and get on with something else. > > ikg ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:03:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: "Mr. Potty-Mouth" - ----- Original Message ----- From: D.P. To: Al Stewart Sent: 22 August 1999 04:11 Subject: "Mr. Potty-Mouth" > I am doing the exact same thing: any posts from Ian > Gomeche, or whatever he calls himself, are > automatically deleted without reading. A bigger jerk > I don't think I have ever met (thank goodness!). > > --Diane > > --- Ann or Gregg Dunphy wrote: > > > If he were still on the list, he'd've set Ian > Gomeche, aka "Mr. Potty-mouth", (all of whose future > > submissions I will bin without bothering to open) > give it as rest diane will you. you will see from greg's later message that he is now reading my stuff and liked my NCO story. i went through the archives to try and see why you have been giving me a hard time. i think it was my HHTTG reference to life,the universe and everything (answer 42) in reply to you pseudo-philosophical babblings about everything both on and off subject refering back to al. i assure you that there is nothing stewart related about swindon town (even steve would admit that ). still you are entited to your view of me. i'd just apreciate it if you would stop tellimg the world what a wanker i am. several of the brits particulalery have written saying how much they like my posts. lighten up. ikg ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:08:03 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Goodbye - ----- Original Message ----- From: D.P. To: Al Stewart Sent: 22 August 1999 04:54 Subject: Re: Goodbye > Wrong. What Ian said below is a total lie. > > --Diane. > > --- ian gomeche wrote: > > i used the word > > once (in extremis). > > since then the word has been repeated again and > > again and again. > > perhaps the 'statistician' can tell us how many > > times it appeared today > > by 'outraged' members of the group. stewart uses it > > (c.f. love chronicles) > > what more can i say.diane has used it several times > > publically and heaven > > knows > > how many times privately.if it really offended you > > why not just 'look the > > other way' > > and get on with something else. > > > > ikg > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > no i don't think so . i went back through the archives and it was being bandied about by yourself and others. rediculous really. you certainly announced on thursday i think that i was nuts and you questioned my parentage . this was after 1 day. well thank you diane.i couldn't find any posts from your friend sean so she really contributed to the group then. ikg ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:21:34 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: "Mr. Potty-Mouth" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Moohan To: Al Stewart Sent: 22 August 1999 08:32 Subject: Re: "Mr. Potty-Mouth" > For my own part, I find the term "potty mouth", which is redolent of > puritanical zeal, to be more offensive than the fine old ango-saxon word > "fuck", which, in its verb form, explains our existence on this earth. > > Tom Moohan > > Fuck the begrudgers - J. P. Donleavy > > > D.P. wrote: > > > I am doing the exact same thing: any posts from Ian > > Gomeche, or whatever he calls himself, are > > automatically deleted without reading. A bigger jerk > > I don't think I have ever met (thank goodness!). > > > > --Diane > > > > --- Ann or Gregg Dunphy wrote: > > > > > If he were still on the list, he'd've set Ian > > Gomeche, aka "Mr. Potty-mouth", (all of whose future > > > submissions I will bin without bothering to open) > > thank you. i noticed to my amusement that sone people asterisked out the 'fuck' but left the wanker in . in u.k. wanker along with the c word are probable worse expletives than fuck . it is used so muck on t.v. now that it causes a lot less offence than it used to. it was used for the first time on t.v. in the 60's by the cricic ken tynan. which gave him considerable publicitity (probably why he did it). ian ---- Tiger, Tiger, turning right In the virus of the night What immortal and worldwide Could flame thy fearful salmon tried. ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:52:59 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Goodbye sylvia wrote: > I haven't checked back but I don't recall any posts > where Diane used any offensive language. > > What I think she and others may have done was > to attach the entire original message as I have done > below. > > This mode of replying means that any purple prose > is repeated several times and comes back to haunt > its originator. > > It also fills the digest with repeats. > yeah thats what i meant actually. at the end of the day there is little (if any difference) between typing in a fuck yourself or forwarding someone elses. this glarred out at me from the archives where my whole original debate with jeff (pretty boring to begin with) was regurgitated again and again. can we please try and edit down 'quotable messages' to only include the REVEVANT bits please? (unless its a short message) in my book people who are too lazy to do this are being more offensive almost than those using fuck. ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:47:21 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Goodbye sylvia wrote: > >From Ian > > >can we please try and edit down 'quotable messages' to only > > include the REVEVANT bits please? (unless its a short message) > > Have you now moved on from agitator to organiser? > no although i expect i'll get some comments. it's just that when i was going through the archives i kept seeing the whole blow-by-blow battle with jeff and others again and again and again. i couldn't even organise a piss up in a brewery ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:10:32 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: html/plain text alex holler wrote 'what is difference between plain text and HTML?' no it's a fair question and only technical people would really know the full answer smnply though 'plain text' is just that - text (words). it includes no 'control information' e.g. move down a few lines before printing this or whatever. this control information can be interpreted differently by different systems due to failures to adhere to standards or even total lack of standards. therefore when exchanging data particularly with other people it is best to stick to plain text i.e. text without any contol stuff. HTML (hyper text markup language) was the real breakthrough on the net. before it the net had been the preserve of techies and governent bodies . when tim berners-lee (a brit) designed the world wide web (the bit of the net most people now consider as the net) he also designed HTML essentially as a series of universal machine-independent instuctions regarding the displaying of information . this means that it does not matter what system you have the stuff stould always appear the same (theoretically at any rate) web pages are designed using HTML (or some varient there-of) some 'fancy' email programs give the option of transmitting mail in html form which will then be viewed by browser-based programs and behave like web pages. t due to the problems we have discussed it is best and safest to set email output to be plain text. in outlook express see options or preferences or whatever its called hope all this made some sort of sense. i'll post it to the group so now everyone can tell me what a smartarse i am (true!) ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:01:53 +0100 From: "Scott Young" Subject: Arguments... "ian", FYI, my name has two "t"s, not one. Please try to spell it correctly unless you wish to be addressed in future as "ia". Fair enough, guv? Thanks. BTW, I'm not a Russian spy. I'm an American spy. Do try to get these things right, "ia". Albatross! Cheers, >>Scott - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche > scot young wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:15:43 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Arguments... scotT wrote: > "ian", > > FYI, my name has two "t"s, not one. Please try to spell it correctly unless > you wish to be addressed in future as "ia". Fair enough, guv? Thanks. > > BTW, I'm not a Russian spy. I'm an American spy. Do try to get these > things right, "ia". > > Albatross ! sorry . i can't spel ! ian (or whatever he is called-to quote my good mate diane) BTW is the white van still parked outside ? (not that i want to get you paranoid or anything) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:30:34 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Cocktail party (was swindow town) i never got round to apogising for the reply i sent you (m.mader) regarding the postings you sent which sparked off my posting to the group regarding 'spurious nonsense'. in the heat of battle which followed because you did not join in i kind of forgot about you i do sincerely apologise and hope you will forgive me. my comments to you really were out of order. ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:00:01 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: the f word m.mader wrote: > Not a flame! Just the amusement I had when I heard the Bhagwan talk about > the most beautiful word in the English language, mainly because it can be > used in so many ways! > > If I remember right, this was something like this: > > "The most beautiful word in the English language is the word f***. You can > use it as a noun (what the f*** is going on here?), or as an adverb (She is > f***ing beautiful)..." > > and went on in that style... > > Mariann > > yeah. but we all know about the 'bagwash' with his 50 rolls royces which people kept giving him and his hordes of suggestible young women. dirty old man.! perhaps i'll start a religion! ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:35:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Grape Juice, Wine & Tea NayaMa wrote all sorts of stuff about tea etc which i didn't really understand of couse english tea is the best (stands to reason really) you can't beat a good cup of twinings darjeeling (their earl grey is o.k. too though a bit poofy - i expect quentin crisp that well known english 'queen' living in n.y. drinks it) jacksons of piccadilly do a good range also. a scottish company called punjana do a good blend which is rough and raw and probably filled with all sorts of nasty chemical i used to like NAFFI tea which has a real kick and is probably full of sawdust (which the u.k. armed forces could not survive without) most peple here drink brook blend p.g. tips or tetleys which are much cheaper than twinnings. al stewart drinks wine because he just likes getting pissed and doesn't care whats in it . if you have got the cash you might as well do it in style with chateau margeaux or whatever (sure beats meths) THAT must be worth a flame surely! ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:42:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: BBC2 Program forgive me if you know this already but it can be downloaded in 9 short chunks from charlie hulme's site at www.page27.co.uk/page27 he refers to pete ballamy (my old mate well sort of) in it. ian the outro is 'dark and rolling sea' first time i've heard it for a while. my fahter stored all my presious vinyl in his garage and they all warped. must replace them some time with c.d.'s. silly bugger anyway i now remember why i like 'dark and rolling sea' so much ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:35:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Grape Juice, Wine & Tea NayaMa wrote all sorts of stuff about tea etc which i didn't really understand of couse english tea is the best (stands to reason really) you can't beat a good cup of twinings darjeeling (their earl grey is o.k. too though a bit poofy - i expect quentin crisp that well known english 'queen' living in n.y. drinks it) jacksons of piccadilly do a good range also. a scottish company called punjana do a good blend which is rough and raw and probably filled with all sorts of nasty chemical i used to like NAFFI tea which has a real kick and is probably full of sawdust (which the u.k. armed forces could not survive without) most peple here drink brook blend p.g. tips or tetleys which are much cheaper than twinnings. al stewart drinks wine because he just likes getting pissed and doesn't care whats in it . if you have got the cash you might as well do it in style with chateau margeaux or whatever (sure beats meths) THAT must be worth a flame surely! ian ---- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 23:53:30 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: re:mr potty mouth before i get any more attacks from our gay members can i just go on record as saying that re. my tea posting 1)quentin crisp refers to himself as 'an outrageous english queen' 2)i am in no way homophobic 3)herbal tea sucks! sorry if i offended anyone . it was very TIC ian potty-mouth (i've never heard that phrase before. perhaps diane could tell us a bit about it) ---- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:52:31 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Goodbye diane perry wrote: > This is true: I have not used any offensive language > while posting to this list, and I nearly never use it > in "real life" as well. That is why I resent it being > said that I do so by some person on the Internet. > That person is very much mistaken (so hugely mistaken > as to actually be lying, and I don't like being lied > about on an Internet list that 100s of people read). > > --Diane . > yawn. yawn the point is that forwarding a fuck to the world is much the same as typing it in or can't you see that? it's perfectly o.k. for you tell the whole planet someone is nuts,question their name/parentage,call them a jerk, get upset if they say fuck even though stewart did in 1969 when it really was an outrage but you get upset when they try to defend themself., anyway,this is all getting too passionate i feel drained i think i will go and lie down ikg ---- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:30:27 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Fw: Miscellany - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Laura Gharazeddine Sent: 22 August 1999 12:10 Subject: Re: Miscellany > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Laura Gharazeddine > To: ian gomeche ; Frondibulus > Cc: > Sent: 22 August 1999 05:31 > Subject: Re: Miscellany > > > > > frondibulus wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As a lurker (mostly), I appreciate new spirited blood like Ian seems > to > > > > be. I've watched several examples of ill-tempered arrivals who became > > > > valuable contributors. Of course, that is from my point of view, > which > > > > is somewhat skewed. > > > > I've found the list so exciting since Ian joined and stirred things up! > This > > guy just does not back down! > > > > And then I started to think, "hmmm...maybe he's some sort of plant or > > mole-placed to get the juices flowing..." > > > > Laura G. > > > > > > > as i said to jeff i must come clean and admit that i work for MI6 on loan > to secret service . no actually i'm a geranium. > > ian ---- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:13:16 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: the fairport connection kim wrote: > > OR ... it could be because we've had that discussion a million times, > including > recently, and don't have anything new to add to it all again so soon. > -- Kim touche. i don't think many people knew much if anything about eclection, the new pam winters book and perhaps a few other snippets about them that i 've introduced. sorry if i didn't grovel enough but i've learnt ,for example, who pam winters is which is useful to know as i've ordered her book i am working my way slowly but surely back through the archives ian. ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:54:13 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Colonel Bogie IBM used to have a load of company songs which they took pretty seriously. at sperry univac (now unisys) we did'nt (take ourselves seriously) each morning in the office we would sing (to the lumberjack song) i'm a univac and i'm o.k. i visit my prospects every day i show them charts and tell them lies but still nobody buys! ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:03:18 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: re:mr potty-mouth terry carroll wrote (amongst other bitchiness): modell whatever est toche. 'nil illegitimi carborundum' as we used to say in RAF still as terry has 'kill filed 'me (sounds really painful) he won't see this. i;'m really glad to say that my good chum diane has too so now she can't snipe at what i say! either. passionately yours ian potty mouth ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:28:31 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: biil gates god calls bill gates,clinton and the chinese president to heaven to tell them that the world is going to end. he takes gates aside and quietly tells him that he is now richer than Himself. clinton goes back to congress and says 'i've got some good news and some bad news . the good news is god exists. the bad news is that the world is going to end'. the chinese guy goes back and says ''i got some bad news and and i've got some worse news. the bad news is that god exists and the worse news is that the world is going to end' bill gates goes back to redmond and says i've got some great news and some even greater news. the great news is that i'm now richer than god. the even greater news is that we don't have to worry about windows 2000 anymore'! from this week's sunday telegraph. police in L.A. hold an identity parade after an armed robbery. they tell each person in the line-up to say 'put your hands up or i'll shoot' one person in the line yells out 'but i didn't say that!' ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:25:02 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: english traditional folk music carlitos wrote: > Should I join the "IKG enemies group"? > I wonder... > Carlitos > > hi caltitos. nothing personal. i'd be confused if if i was talking about george lucas and some fruit cake starts gibbering about trevor lucas. i wonder if it is possible to get ANYTHING by eclection now ? although 'm i sure their 1 and only album called excitingly enough 'eclection' was deleted long ago. does anyone know what happened to their vocalist kerille male . she was a tasty little thing in black leather. oh yes. she could sing too!. ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:37:29 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: ASML manuscripts (VESI) calitos wrote: > > > What's a FAQ? > assuming that your question is serious. FAQ is 'frequently asked questions' most newsgroups /mailing lists have them. one is urged to read them first to try and reduce number of posts repeating stuff. that's a good point you can't really blame me as your FAQ is rather out of date. some of the more serious hacker sites where i used to hang out used too get REALLY upset if you didn't read FAQ. you would really spammed to death and you could end up getting your hard drive trashed or your emails stolen. those guys (not your usuall kiddie wannabees) could really do it (if they could be bothered.) still as ray is a computer expert perhaps i'll wake up to find my machine smouldering or something. no chance of terminating my account though. i'm friendly with the ISP owner's son and i've put a lot of business their way. ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:55:49 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: clifton in the rain on a somewhat lighter note: steve hall wrote some stuff in his review of CITR about the traffic lights in the song. steve said he remembered them. i have been trying to think back steve (i was last in clifton oh 20 years ago) and can't recall which one's you mean? BTW steve do you remember carwadines where you could buy great tea and coffee. we used to go to sir prize and splinters for breakfast (where the really cool people like me hang out.) ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:05:42 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: radio 2 interview just listened to this again. al mentions bristol univ folk club. as i mentioned in an earlier post by the time i was seeing al in early 70's he had outgrown the folk clubs and was playing the mainsteam college circuit, (BTW steve i too had a girlfriend at redland college - 1st year univ girls wouldn't even LOOK at first year guys so we used to trawl redlands and fishponds teacher training colleges) i did however see the strabs through bristol univ folk club. a very nervous rick wakeman had just joined from royal school of music. he sat in a silver cloak hiding behind his ONE yes one hammond organ. good it was too dr. john (walk on gilded splinters) played a free concert at bristol univ. he threw a phial of something into the audience. my mate caught it and we went home and smoked it which seemed apprpriate thing to do.also good too. i mentioned quentin crisp in tea posting because he is this week's lookalike in private eye who compares him to maggie thatcher. i visited the site after my last post about private eye. reccommended at www.private-eye.co.uk i mention this here because greek street is the home of private eye. al mentioned it in the interview. good for him to mention fairport and pete bellamy (plug plug) ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:05:38 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Radio2 interview sylvia wrote: > > Having listened to that bit again I think L. Juber is speaking > at that point rather than R. McT. And in the context I don't > think it is a criticism. > yeah i agree . i think its complimentary. i have always thought that al is your 'thinking persons singer' but not as heavy going as say cohen hence the palatable bit. cohen is one person whom i flatly banned my wife from playing when i was around. can't stand the miserable bugger.. as al fans ARE intelligent thinking people and you lot are no different. please think before you flame me 'is this guy just taking the piss?' probable answer yes ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:29:56 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Ian's sorry cocktail party john knipfing wrote 'rediculous image' and first posting . nothing rediculous about those flame wars i assure you. not that i am now bringing up the flames which i have long forgotten but rather your use of the word rediculous. i actually found your original PUBLIC posting to be the most disturbing email i have ever received . i suppose i now accept it was just your strange aussie humour but it did seem to have some sort of veilled threat and imply i couldn't take the heat. ' did you really think that the heading 'ian's sorry coctail party' was going to do wionders for my already waning popularity?. thanks a lot mate ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:45:04 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Goodbye - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark J. Moerman To: Sent: 24 August 1999 05:44 Subject: Re: Goodbye > > >it's perfectly o.k. for you tell the whole planet someone is nuts... > > but you get upset when they try to defend themself., > > > >anyway,this is all getting too passionate > > I have to agree with Ian here. I gave Ian a hard time for his, shall we say, > youthful indiscretions, but over the past few days this has really gone > overboard. I think things have well and truly gone too far when we have > people griping back and forth about who forwarded what and whether the sins > of the original poster are visited upon the replier. > > How about if we all just drop the subject and stop all the accusations and > bitching? There is no victory to be won in this; nothing except the > prolongation of the unpleasantness will be accomplished by continuing along > these lines. > > Mark > > yeah i agree (well i would would'nt i) this is exacly why you lot drove charlie away. on the subject of interest to anyone. i doubt if many of the brits give tuppence about the cleveland browns or about the nutritional content of whatever (we just aren't as obsessed as you americans) if something is not relevant to me i just glance at it and don't save it. no sweat . i don't complain. i'm complaining now . there is far too little tolerance in the group and as i have said that is why charlie left.. a lot of my postings should have totally unnessary if i hadn't been flamed so much in public. as for early 70's stuff. i HAVE been there and worn teeshirt. i think a lot of old-timers (in al terms rather than list terms) have interesting anecdotes sure beats this modell crap) ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:04:42 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Fw: plant - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ian gomeche Sent: 19 August 1999 17:24 Subject: Re: plant > well, I for one don't mind you expressing your opinions about the list > and it's non-Al content. I joined back in January, and didn't care for > all the non-AL posts either. But I've learned so much about Al and > available cds and Laurence Juber,etc...that I've learned to put up with > it. Now I often post non-Al stuff as well as Al-related. A lot of these > ASML'ers are very sensitive. If you really want to create a stir, say > something nasty about homosexuals. ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:30:07 -0600 From: scottmaxwell@wwdb.org Subject: Ian's Threat (what is ".,it"?) Subject: Re: Goodbye Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:16:00 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" organization: ikg associates To: References: 1 , 2 , 3 i asked pretty politely, i thought, for peole not to flame me in public you asked for .,it. ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:47:41 -0700 From: David Hollister Subject: Re: Fw: plant scottmaxwell@wwdb.org wrote: > > What, Ian, is that supposed to upset me? Forwarding personal email to a mailing list without the originator's consent is grounds for getting kicked off the list on many mailing lists. I can put up with a lot of meaningless drivel, but blatant disregard of netiquette is enough to make me add this person to my kill file too (which currently contains no individuals) - -- David Hollister - S/W Engineer - Interphase Corp. DAT/CD list: http://www.hollister.nu/david ICQ: 16935713 ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:39:13 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Fw: plant - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Hollister Cc: Sent: 24 August 1999 20:47 Subject: Re: Fw: plant > scottmaxwell@wwdb.org wrote: > > > > What, Ian, is that supposed to upset me? > > Forwarding personal email to a mailing list without the originator's consent is > grounds for getting kicked off the list on many mailing lists. I can put up > with a lot of meaningless drivel, but blatant disregard of netiquette is enough > to make me add this person to my kill file too (which currently contains no > individuals) > > -- > David Hollister - S/W Engineer - Interphase Corp. > DAT/CD list: http://www.hollister.nu/david > ICQ: 16935713 > launching nasty attacks in public is more unpleasant in my book. i think any legal defence is fair. and overides standard nettiquette. i.e. rules of engagement in war generally different to those in peacetime. don't see why this should be any different ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:55:38 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: very confusing two scotts on list ah someone just told me that there are two you both in u.k. both giving me agro i see now there are not to worry . what would al make of threats to kill.? perhaps i'll go back to alt.hackers where they just trash your system. ian this really is getting too passionate i really must go and lie down. what does netiquette say about references to guns i wonder? ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:21:58 -0700 From: David Hollister Subject: Welcome to the kill file ian gomeche wrote: > > what does netiquette say about references to guns i wonder? So long, you've been killed. That should cut down my mailbox size by about 50%. - -- David Hollister - S/W Engineer - Interphase Corp. DAT/CD list: http://www.hollister.nu/david ICQ: 16935713 ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:05:34 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Henchmen scott young wrote: > I'm too old to be an truly effective "henchman", and you can't buy a gun > over here in England, but I'd like to volunteer to be Kim's UK chief spy and > general snitch so the other "henchmen" (what is politically correct here? > henchwomen? henchpersons?) can home in on enemies of the state. Any ideas > for my first assignment? Try to consider who else lives here in the UK that > needs finding and "sorting out"... ahem. > > Secretly yours, > >>ttocS (secret code) > bearing in mind the timing and the henchman,u.k. reference whom do you think most people reading this are going to consider you are refering to?. if it's no one on the list then why post it. threats/incitements to kill are a criminal offence (at least here in u.k.) i'll be talking to the police tomorrow. egotistically your ian ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:38:42 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Henchmen(2) - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Sent: 25 August 1999 01:05 Subject: Re: Henchmen > scott young wrote: > > > I'm too old to be an truly effective "henchman", and you can't buy a gun > > over here in England, but I'd like to volunteer to be Kim's UK chief spy > and > > general snitch so the other "henchmen" (what is politically correct here? > > henchwomen? henchpersons?) can home in on enemies of the state. Any > ideas > > for my first assignment? Try to consider who else lives here in the UK > that > > needs finding and "sorting out"... ahem. > > > > Secretly yours, > > >>ttocS (secret code) > > > i will have to trace you and find out exactly where you are. in scottish law there is a quaint expression ' to place someone in a state of fear and alarm' in view of timing,fact its on ASML,henchman reference, someone in u.k. reference i have very strong grounds for beleiving that you are refering to myself. in scottish law a 'common sense' view is usually taken e.g. if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is reasonable to assume that it is a duck even though it may not have been called a duck by name. i therefore consider that you have placed me in a state of fear and alarm. there probably therefore is a case for you to answer. see you in court. legally yours ian wqithout prejudice ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:05:54 +0100 From: "ian gomeche" Subject: Re: Henchmen(3) - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Sent: 25 August 1999 01:38 Subject: Re: Henchmen(2) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ian gomeche > To: > Sent: 25 August 1999 01:05 > Subject: Re: Henchmen > > > > scott young wrote: > > > > > I'm too old to be an truly effective "henchman", and you can't buy a gun > > > over here in England, but I'd like to volunteer to be Kim's UK chief spy > > and > > > general snitch so the other "henchmen" (what is politically correct > here? > > > henchwomen? henchpersons?) can home in on enemies of the state. Any > > ideas > > > for my first assignment? Try to consider who else lives here in the UK > > that > > > needs finding and "sorting out"... ahem. > > > > > > Secretly yours, > > > >>ttocS (secret code) > > > > > > > i think that i will forward a copy of this to mr. stewart's agent. i think mr. stewart should be aware of what's been going on in his name diplomatically yours ian ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:33:49 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: geez (no Al) This is getting REALLY boring. I'm giving it about one more day and if the nonsense from Ian doesn't stop, *I'M* quitting the damn list. Ian - Get over yourself. NOBODY is (seriously) threatening to kill you. And please stop posting the same stupid message to the list over and over again. You remind me of a line from the old MASH TV show - Major Burns: "Why do people take an instant dislike to me?" Captain Honnicut: "It saves time, Frank." I was willing to give you a chance after the initial foray onto the list, but it's getting boorish and old. I hereby put my name first on the petition to Muffy to have you forcibly removed from the list. Anyone want to join me? Jeff Richter ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:16:21 -0700 (PDT) From: steve hall sydney aust Subject: getting silly Hi all, OK, this is getting VERY silly, and it's time to stop (to quote Graham Chapman - imaging me in a colonel's uniform). Ian, please ignore any implied or imagined threats, unpleasantness or rudeness, and stop worrying about netiquette, for about three days, and it will all go away, I promise. if you implement a 'think twice before you hit send' rule for future posts, I'm sure that will preempt future attacks on you. Everyone else who's been fighting with Ian, or anyone else for that matter, please stop. Whatever anyone's said, it's not worth the bother, and I'm getting very bored with all this 'you said, he said' crap. If anyone really wants to fight, please free feel to send me as many insults as you want, and I promise to ignore them all. Regards, Steve ---- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:25:07 -0700 (PDT) From: markjm@pacbell.net (Mark J. Moerman) Subject: Re: getting silly >Ian, please ignore any implied or imagined threats, >unpleasantness or rudeness, and stop worrying about >netiquette, for about three days, and it will all go away, I >promise. YES! For pity's sake, Ian, please follow the above advice!!! I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you've been continually fanning the flames and not letting them die down. JUST DROP IT!! >Everyone else who's been fighting with Ian, or anyone else for >that matter, please stop. Whatever anyone's said, it's not >worth the bother, and I'm getting very bored with all this >'you said, he said' crap. YES! For pity's sake, everyone who's been fighting with Ian, please follow the above advice!!! JUST DROP IT!! There is no prize for having "the last word". No one is going to win anything by continuing these arguments. Please, people, JUST DROP IT!!! Mark ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:38:40 -0700 From: Ann or Gregg Dunphy Subject: Re: Goodbye scottmaxwell@wwdb.org wrote: > > > In regards to Charlie leaving the list...if we miss him...we can always go > to his site and visit. > > What is he, the poster boy for ASML abuse? Or would that be you? Charlie was *not* any such person. He left the list because he found the coarse material posted my certain of the ASML unacceptably offensive. I my purposes in mentioning his departure were to 1) inform or remind the balance of the ASML that we have already lost at least one *devout* Al Stewart fan due to a lack of discretion in posting by some of us; and 2) subtly suggest that perhaps this was not a good idea. Sylvia seems to have picked up on that as well. Way to go Syl! Gregg ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:18:32 -0400 From: "Bill Vailliencourt" Subject: Our "friend " Ian FYI. Got this from Muffy last night. Hooray! - ---------- > From: Muffy > To: billv@ismi.net > Subject: Re: ASML > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 11:07 PM > > > I don't know if you've received other requests, but please consider this as > > a request to remove ian gomeche from the mailing list. His numerous posts > > have been abusive and, despite repeated warning, he's gone over the line as > > far as I'm concerned. > > Just heard the same thing from Kim - he's off. > > Thanks for the note... > > Muffy ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:14:24 -0700 (PDT) From: steve hall sydney aust Subject: Brief encounter G'day, Well, THAT was a brief but intense encounter with my old university classmate Ian. I'm copying Ian on this mail because, whatever the rights & wrongs (and there's lots of both) of this episode, it's only polite to let him know formally that he has indeed been expelled. I hope I don't make any enemies in stating my objections to the expulsion, or in the following analysis - including you Ian. Let's face it, Ian started badly and it went downhill from there, but I don't think he can be blamed 100%. Sure, he came in feet first (soccer analogy), and then got his back up and responded badly when he was (a tad harshly, perhaps) slapped down. Plus he was controversial, a little crude (but no more than others, and we're all adults), and rather thin-skinned for someone able to dish it out. But there are two sides to everything, and I think after the initial furore settled down there were some 'holier-than-thou' posters that went on and on a bit too long. OK, Ian made a rod for his own back (do you like these analogies - or cliches, more like), but some were a bit over-zealous in beating him with it. We're supposed to be erudite (it says so on Charlie's page 27) and civilised, and I think civilisation implies tolerance of differences, even if we aren't comfortable with the differences ourselves - that's what tolerance is all about. To block someone's mails because you don't want to read them is one thing, and entirely understandable. To censor them so no-one else can see them (as in removing the person from the list) is another. Muffy's guidelines (and my admiration for Muffy knows no bounds, he said in a desperate attempt to make sure he doesn't get kicked off - but it's true) say that someone will be removed when 50% of people request it. I don't think we followed the guidelines in this case. I'm not suggesting Ian be reinstated, I think it's too late for that (although if it came to a vote that's the way I'd go, not because I necessarily agree with Ian's views or the way he expresses them, but in the name of tolerance and understanding). And I can understand why the people who asked for expulsion felt the way they did - but I don't concur, Ian's posts gave me the opportunity to crack a few really good jokes (well, I liked them), and now I'm deprived of that opportunity. So I don't think the ASML as a whole came out of this episode with a huge amount of credit. If we aren't mature enough to ignore (as opposed to encourage by disagreeing in such a manner as to continue the debate endlessly) comments we don't like, but respond with expulsion based on the requests of a minority, whither free speech? Thank goodness we don't run the UN (pity about those that do). How would we deal with real hate and violence? My view of Ian is that he came across as a right pratt, arrogant to boot, in the beginning, and didn't know when to stop (a problem shared by several of his detractors - it only takes one person to stop an argument, especially on the Net, just don't answer) but few people took the time to understand him, guide him or help him to become the interesting and controversial (in a positive manner) contributor that he could have become. In fact, a few people did mail him privately to try to suggest a different approach, and he's grateful to them - perhaps a more reasonable approach than public castigation. So instead of an interesting and valuable Al fan learning more appropriate behaviour from our enlightened example, we have ejected a disillusioned, although hopefully wiser, Al fan left with less than pleasant memories of how we treat a person who shares our taste in music but makes (some of) us feel uncomfortable. OK, I'm boring myself now. My next topic will be 'prison - retribution or rehabilitation' Love Steve (who can also be 'more-tolerant-than-thou') ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:08:16 -0600 (MDT) From: jknif@webtv.net (John Knipfing) Subject: Re: Brief encounter Steve, Thanks for your last words on Ian. I very much agree with your comments. I don't agree with kicking him out, but I do think he had it coming to him. After all, you can only expect to be shown the yellow card so many times before being sent off. I'm new and don't want to say it was wrong, but maybe if his negative posts had gotten no responses, he would have gotten bored and gone away. I probably should have refrained from taking my own digs at him. He actually called me a "nasty piece of work" which set me to wondering. Regards, John PS: I doubt we've heard the last of Ian anyway. He does have many of our email addresses. ---- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:38:55 -0600 (MDT) From: "Christopher M. Conway" Subject: Re: Brief encounter On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, steve hall sydney aust wrote: =Muffy's guidelines (and my admiration for Muffy knows no =bounds, he said in a desperate attempt to make sure he doesn't =get kicked off - but it's true) say that someone will be =removed when 50% of people request it. I don't think we =followed the guidelines in this case. I'm going to step in here with *MY* listadmin hat on. (No, I don't run ASML; but I run quite a few other lists, and have had to throw my share of people off them). The "guidelines", in the end, for removing people from the list, are simply this: Does the list admin think the list will be better with, or without, the person? When large quantities of people start unsubscribing (and my experience is that about 5-10 do for every *one* that says publicly that they are), it's time to step in. We probably lost a good twentyish subscribers over this, at least. I know that Ian was the first person *I've* had procmail throw into the bit bucket. Muffy, you did a good job in a nasty situation. I know I *hate* being put into the situation of "censoring" someone (it's not censorship, because I'm not the government, nor is Muffy), or allowing a list to die. The choice is a hard one, and you never know if you made it right. That sucks. However, from one listadmin to another, *WELL DONE*. (Listadmin hat off; you can flame away now.) ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:32:39 EDT From: Kimbis@aol.com Subject: re: Brief encounter >Muffy's guidelines (and my admiration for Muffy knows no >bounds, he said in a desperate attempt to make sure he doesn't >get kicked off - but it's true) say that someone will be >removed when 50% of people request it. I don't think we >followed the guidelines in this case. Muffy apparently DID feel that the guidelines were followed. A number of people posted publically, and a number of people also emailed Muffy privately to keep the yelling and screaming OFF the list. I've known her for years, and she is not inclined to boot people unless it teeters on the brink of closing down the entire ASML permenantly. I know of usenet newsgroups that HAVE been completely destroyed by someone like Ian, and moderated alternatives created almost specifically to eliminate their destructive presence. I don't think closing down the ASML is what anyone wants, but that was looming as a serious option. - -- Kim ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:05:14 +0100 From: "SMorris" Subject: Re: Brief encounter From: steve hall > We're supposed to be erudite (it says so on Charlie's page 27) > and civilised, and I think civilisation implies tolerance of > differences, even if we aren't comfortable with the > differences ourselves - that's what tolerance is all about. I sent something in about changing the welcome message so that newcomers didn't get off on the wrong foot, because it -has- happened before. Today I'm feeling cynical and wondering if the message should just say 'Welcome to the Al Stewart Mauling List'. > I'm not suggesting Ian be reinstated, I think it's too late > for that (although if it came to a vote that's the way I'd go, > not because I necessarily agree with Ian's views or the way he > expresses them, but in the name of tolerance and > understanding). Yes it probably is too late for that. Sylvia ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:17:52 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Brief encounter John Knipfing wrote: > Thanks for your last words on Ian. I very much agree with your > comments. I don't agree with kicking him out, but I do think he had it > coming to him. After all, you can only expect to be shown the yellow > card so many times before being sent off. I'm new and don't want to > say it was wrong, but maybe if his negative posts had gotten no > responses, he would have gotten bored and gone away. bingo! with no responses, he would've stopped. an antagonist needs an agonist - someone to harrass. some on the list made great foils for him. he had fun at your expense. i am certainly glad that he is gone, but not for the same reasons. i realized early on that i did not care for ian's opinions, so i simply ignored them. but i grew frustrated with some people on this list whose opinions i respect (even when i don't agree), people who should know better, yet were drawn into ian's game. > PS: I doubt we've heard the last of Ian anyway. He does have many of > our email addresses. you said it yourself - no responses. ignore the guy. it's junk mail, plain and simple - same as if you receive it in the post. killfile him, or simply don't read him. max ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "D.P." Subject: Re: Brief encounter - --- John Knipfing wrote: > > I probably should have refrained from taking my own > digs at him. He > actually called me a "nasty piece of work" which set > me to wondering. **** I too feel slightly (*very* slightly) ashamed of the way I treated The Ian Situation. But, remember, for all the abusive e-mails he sent to the list at large, there were others he e-mailed to people off-list that were even more abusive (one that he sent me really, really ticked me off, which resulted in my encouragement to get this guy out of Our Cocktail Party). Glad it's all over, frankly. And, oh, how I do love my "Block Address" button! All e-mail softwares should have them, I think. - --Diane ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:06:28 -0400 From: Everett Dague Subject: Re: Brief encounter and reviews While I understand the objections to removing Ian (and I'm not paricularly unsympathetic, actually), at the same time I must say I was alarmed at his comparison of a mailing list to war (all's fair) and his quickness to discount netiquette and lack of respect for others. I really enjoy this list and it distresses me to see this kind of abrasiveness, especially when it's directed toward people for whom I've come to have a kind of cyberaffection. I'm not sure who said that Ian might have become a valuable contributor to the list (and he might have), but I couldn't find anything in his postings that made me want to wait and see. Night Train to Munich -- This is a really cool song, and it supports something I've always liked about Al, namely, his ability to take the wildest of historical themes and produce a nifty song out of them. I think it would have been better placed in France toward the end of the Third Republic, which was like intrigue/cabal central, but a Weimar setting works well too (or a post-WW2 Berlin, for that matter.) Still, 8.5/10 Next Time - a very spooky song on a very thought-provoking album, but I like the riffs and the bleak optimism. Been there, Al, and it's still a keeper. 8/10 Everett and Wilma Dague ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:11:21 -0700 From: Richard Ball Subject: Ian I just wanted to say that I feel Ian's expulsion from the list was a scam. If over fifty per cent of us had to vote to remove him then where was my ballot? If nothing else he brought some much needed life to the list. Having seen Al on the UK circuit in the early part of his career he would of had a lot of stories to relate. I have seen a side to a few people on the list that I hadn't seen before. In any event they have all gotten their way and we all lose because of it. What happened to us all agreeing to disagree? Cheers, Rich PS. Mailing the private email on his part was bad nettiquette but maybe he didn't know that. ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:27:48 EDT From: NayaMa@aol.com Subject: Re: Ian In a message dated 99-08-26 15:12:20 EDT, richball@buffnet.net writes: << I just wanted to say that I feel Ian's expulsion from the list was a scam. If over fifty per cent of us had to vote to remove him then where was my ballot? If nothing else he brought some much needed life to the list. Having seen Al on the UK circuit in the early part of his career he would of had a lot of stories to relate. I have seen a side to a few people on the list that I hadn't seen before. In any event they have all gotten their way and we all lose because of it. What happened to us all agreeing to disagree? Cheers, Rich >> Sigh. I mostly lurk and read. Because I'm an average responsible adult, I delete many many mails I don't want to read. I didn't find Ian any more offensive than the next person I don't read, it was easy for me to click "delete" whenever I saw emails with his addr on them. However, this isn't my email list, I don't own it, and I didn't make up the rules by which people post through it. This isn't a democracy, it doesn't fall under anyone's civil or constitutional rights or violations thereof. He won't be invited back, and all I can say is "So what?" Robyn ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:06:25 -0700 From: David Hollister Subject: Re: Ian Richard Ball wrote: > > I just wanted to say that I feel Ian's expulsion from the list was a > scam. If over fifty per cent of us had to vote to remove him then where > was my ballot? If nothing else he brought some much needed life to the > list. Sorry, that's not the kind of "life" I look for in a mailing list. > all gotten their way and we all lose because of it. What happened to > us all agreeing to disagree? I have no problem with that, but that wasn't the issue. > Cheers, > Rich > PS. Mailing the private email on his part was bad nettiquette but maybe > he didn't know that. He didn't do it once, he did it twice, with no added text. It was clearly meant to annoy people. It also wasn't the only reason he was removed. Let's move on. - -- David Hollister - S/W Engineer - Interphase Corp. DAT/CD list: http://www.hollister.nu/david ICQ: 16935713 ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:34:38 EDT From: JKumin@aol.com Subject: Re: Ian Nobody polled me what I thought about Ian prior to his expulsion, and I think that is a good thing, because my feelings were mixed. Now that it is a fait accompli (and a rather above par fait, I might add, from the just desserts point of view, whatever the cost to list liveliness and moral high ground, and all the other sides of the coin) I want to throw in a point of view that perhaps no one has considered. Someone did evince a suspicion that Ian was a plant, a fictitious or otherwise deliberate provocateur to get us all talking again about various and sundry topics, Well, I started to remember how the first outbreak of "hostility" was between him and Kim, and it occurred to me, maybe Ian=Kim=Al, and all his attacks on her and whining about notifying Al's management about what was being done in his name was a cover-up attempt. (This was meant to be the last word in silliness and to give people a few chuckles so that we can let out a communal sigh. On the other hand, as conspiracy theories go... I watched a hysterical send up last night of the X-Files written by Joe Michael Staczinski, for his new Babylon 5 spinoff series, Crusade. It was about a pair of investigators on an alien world who are convinced that humans are visiting their world and interfering with the development of their society. It's all done in this very noir style, and the female alien even looks like Gillian Anderson under the green scales and Medusa-like hair. And the conclusion? Why that "the truth is... not what it used to be" or something like that. ) Satirically yours, Jeremy ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:14:05 -0600 From: Yanuly Martin Sanson Athanasiadis Subject: Status Quo (Was Ian) Well, I'm somewhat preocupied Ian mentioned that there were members who felt that there was an status quo of some sort working on the ASML. Rather than to create some Ian-spinoffs I would ask them to participate more, fore or against the "tide" if there ever was one. I for one, have always felt a great (and working) freedom here, evidenced by the low topic police arrests and the overall eclectic climate. Of course, I might be wrong, but then again, somebody prove me so. ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:12:15 BST From: "Al Stewart" Subject: [none] Just like to say thank you for all your support Al ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:08:12 -0700 (PDT) From: markjm@pacbell.net (Mark J. Moerman) Subject: Re: Ian >If nothing else he brought some much needed life to the list. That kind of life we can do without. The guy just wouldn't let matters drop. The disruption that he originally caused may well have been unwitting, but he continually fanned the flames, and while I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, I found him abrasive and, more so than anyone else who's been on the list in my four plus years here, he filled my mailbox with tons of useless piffle. Mark ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:23:38 -0700 (PDT) From: steve hall sydney aust Subject: Re: Hoax? - ---Al Stewart wrote: > > Just like to say thank you for all your support > > Al Call me cynic-al, but somehow I have my doubts that this is OUR Al, although I'd like to think I'm wrong. Just in case, hi Al, remember I waved at you while you were waiting outside for the gig to start at Redlands College, Bristol, in late 1971. You were wearing a fur-lined suede jacket. I was wearing a lovely Irish girl called Maria who performed the initiating ceremony on me that your discretely unnamed partner did for you in the Lower Pleasure Gardens (but I was almost 20, not 16, damn it). Seriously, if I were to talk to the real Al, I'd tell him how many thousands of hours of pleasure he's given me, and say thanks a lot. In fact, of the things/people I've been really passionate about for a long time (ie over 15 years), he's probably the only one that's never caused me any grief (Susan & I have fought, like any couple, Swindon lose occasionally, and Angelique goes through many traumas which I share whenever I read the books - there, now you know all my passions, in case you had forgotten). Love Steve ---- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT) From: mousethief Subject: GIVE IT A REST GUYS First we hash over this Ian thing over and over while he's here, and now that he's gone we're hashing it over once more, and then twice more and then..... ENOUGH ALREADY! Let's just drop it! I'm going to scream if I see one more post about whether Ian was unjustly ejected or what have you. Can we kindly please just talk about something else? Why not talk about the 3 songs of the week, for example? This week they're Night Rolls In Night of the 4th of May Night Train to Munich This is after all the AL STEWART mailing list not the IAN GOMECHE mailing list. LET'S TALK ABOUT AL fergoshsakes. Sorry. Just had to get that out of my system. Alex The Strong ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:15:13 CDT From: "Al Fann" Subject: Al or Memorex?//Unpopular ASML Members - ----Original Message Follows---- >From: "Al Stewart" >To: al-stewart@things.org >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:12:15 BST > >Just like to say thank you for all your support > >Al Hmmm. My first thought was, "Ohmygod... he finally posted something!" Then, it occurred to me that a) Al would have said, "Thank you very much indeed." But then I figured, well, perhaps his concert-closing line isn't something he would say in writing. And he would probably love the notion that the list members would wonder incessantly whether the posting really came from him. And then, I thought... b) It came from a Hotmail account. I sincerely doubt Al Stewart would have a Hotmail account. Perhaps I'm mistaken. In any case, however, it was a nice message, no nastiness or flaming or swearing, nothing to complain about. And isn't it cool to think that maybe, just maybe, Al did drop by to say thanks? I've been fortunate enough to meet and talk with Al on a number of occasions; so have many on this list. Wouldn't you say he's a nice enough guy for such an occurrence to be within the realm of possibility? Now onto another, not-so-happy subject: I don't often post--lurking seems safest, especially considering the Ian situation--but with all due apologies to the lovely Mr. Riggle and those who agree with him on this point, I really want to chime in--*briefly*--on Mr. Gomeche. My lurking is limited to reading only postings that really catch my attention. I'm inordinately busy these days and there simply isn't time to read everything, although I highly enjoy the postings I peruse. But I stayed up most of the night trying to figure out what happened, and therefore read all--God help me--all of the posts from the week of Ian. Yeah, he was rude and obnoxious and sometimes hilarious. He obviously didn't know his way around a mailing list. He lied about using the F word only once--frankly, I don't care about the word; as he pointed out, Al used it himself in a song--it's the lying that bothered me. And he either thinks very highly of himself or overcompensates to the nth degree. Many of his posts were unpleasant to read (as were many of the replies). His expulsion is, as they say, a done deal, and I hope the list will go on and that whatever led the ASML to careen dangerously near going out of business is over. But I am upset that he was expelled. I understand it happening, but it saddens me. I know others have left the list feeling they were driven away because they had controversial views; in two cases I went back and read old postings and it did seem as if they had been pummeled quite a bit on-list (and, one person said, off-list as well--although I must add that this person doesn't--and I don't either--believe they were purposely driven away. In their shoes, I would have bolted too. Stuff happens, and on a list of this nature, the unpopular don't last long and can opt to either do the Al-only list, where they don't get to speak with anyone--purgatory for those who want to talk with other Al fans--or do without entirely and live their Al lives in total isolation). Ian was obviously highly unpopular on the ASML. Perhaps I wouldn't feel so bad if he'd been driven away, if he'd made the decision that it was all too much to bear. (Lord knows he made others feel that way, myself included.) All I can surmise in this case is that Ian was too recalcitrant to go without being forcibly booted. And that's really sad. I am genuinely sorry for taking up your time with this, but I really felt the need to express myself just this once. I will go back to lurking and pray fervently that this posting won't make me unpopular (which is not to say that I am popular by any means, only that no one hates me. Yet). Though I rarely post, I really enjoy getting to know all of you through your postings, even the non-Al ones (which I enjoy immensely). Losing that would be a kind of purgatory. thank you very much indeed, al fann pax vobiscum ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:39:09 -0600 (MDT) From: jknif@webtv.net (John Knipfing) Subject: Re: Re: My ips tells me which time zone a message is from. The "Al"mail posting was most likely from the UK. Who is in the UK that would play this kind of silly game? John ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:11:06 +0100 From: Jon and Faith Subject: Message from "Al" Hi, I just had a look at the header from the "Al" message, and looked up the IP address of the sending computer and it was from a user on the internet provider ifb.co.uk. Funnily enough someone who recently left the list had an email address ending with the same.. As Ian's the only person I've ever even seen using that provider I'm a little suspicious. Jon ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:00:00 -0600 From: Yanuly Martin Sanson Athanasiadis Subject: Flamin' lizards, it's Dopple-Al! Well, it's ironic that he was kicked by the same reasons he was bespoken by Charlie as negative about the list. He didn't become the thing he feared, but already was. Tech trace shows: ... 18 pos6-0-0.cr2.leeds.pipex.net (158.43.254.125) [AS 1849] 164 msec 164 msec 156 msec 19 hssi4-0.cr2.edinburgh.pipex.net (158.43.254.110) [AS 1849] 168 msec 164 msec 168 msec 20 fddi0-0.gw3.edinburgh.pipex.net (158.43.178.3) [AS 1849] 440 msec 180 msec 172 msec 21 inteford1-1-gw.pipex.net (158.43.36.26) [AS 1849] 216 msec 208 msec 224 msec 22 pm3-1.ifb.net (194.105.166.252) [AS 8902] 220 msec 220 msec 196 msec 23 pm3-1.ifb.net (194.105.166.252) [AS 8902].... ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:02:35 EDT From: Jatras@aol.com Subject: Re: Brief encounter In a message dated 8/25/99 9:15:40 PM Central Daylight Time, sjhstfcal@rocketmail.com writes: > To block someone's mails because you don't want to read them is one thing, and > entirely understandable. To censor them so no-one else can see them (as in removing > the person from the list) is another. And to bypass your own rules in order to do it is even quite another. And when the action is taken by the absolute administrator, even quite another. And when no one challanges it, even quite another. > Muffy's guidelines (and my admiration for Muffy knows no > bounds, he said in a desperate attempt to make sure he doesn't > get kicked off - but it's true) say that someone will be > removed when 50% of people request it. I don't think we > followed the guidelines in this case. Statements like this make me nervous. Dante' has something to say about who occupies the hottest places in Hell. You could look at the implications of these statements in more ways than you can say Dick Van Dyke. Don't kid yourself into thinking it's not important for you to reverse this, that's it just the Al list. The fact that it's "only" an Al Stewart list makes it even more important to act civilly. Com'n you guys, remember where you are! > I'm not suggesting Ian be reinstated, I think it's too late > for that (although if it came to a vote that's the way I'd go, > not because I necessarily agree with Ian's views or the way he > expresses them, but in the name of tolerance and > understanding). I suggest exactly that. How can it be "too late for that"? If it's the right thing to do, the sober thing, then do it. I haven't been posting much recently, so if I leave, you won't have lost much, I guess. However, I must insist, in the name of honesty and fair play, that Ian be reinstated immediately, and if he is to be removed, it must be done within the framework of agreed upon rules. Or change the rules, then get rid of him. Or let him back in. I won't accept the status quo as it stands now, especially on a first class Al list with lawyers, journalists, and self-styled historians (who I suppose are the first to admit that the only lesson in history is that we don't learn anything from history). If Ian isn't reinstated, I will not continue to pretend that the rules here mean anything. If Ian isn't reinstated, I will unsubscribe. I won't have a choice. I don't know Muffy. She's probably very nice. But, she made a mistake here, and not just she, but you all, should immediately move to rectify it by standing up and publically demanding that the rules of the list be followed, and that Ian be reinstated immediately. Don't wait to see what Muffy will do. All you silent ASML'er, if you are ever inclined to participate, say something now. If your comments inundate the list for a couple of days, at least it should be interesting. To hear from the silent majority on a topic which, when you think about it, is as important as any I know. And Muffy, don't wait to see which way the wind blows. Be strong enough to admit you got angry and made a hasty mistake and that you are big enough to reverse yourself because you know it wasn't proper. Either this is gonna work, or I'm about to take a beating. I'm not sure which. I hope I didn't get anyone too angry at me, but I just felt like taking a stand on what I consider to be an important issue. I don't know Ian from Adam. I'm just protecting myself. Jeff (who hopes he does not have to leave the best list around) ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:46:41 EDT From: JKumin@aol.com Subject: Re: Brief encounter In a message dated 8/27/99 5:53:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jatras@aol.com writes: << Muffy's guidelines (and my admiration for Muffy knows no > bounds, he said in a desperate attempt to make sure he doesn't > get kicked off - but it's true) say that someone will be > removed when 50% of people request it. I don't think we > followed the guidelines in this case. >> Does that equate with all of us requesting it half-heartedly? What about 25% trying to lynch him with enthusiam, 24% staunchly defending the little bugger, and 51% (the silent majoity?) abstaining? I liked some of what he said but was appalled by other parts, and have mixed feelings about whether the list is better off with or without him, but I have to applaud Jeff's carefully worded and not the least bit inflammatory appeal. He makes a good point. I also think that if people are being personally abused or threatened, that it's an administrative call that can be made without a plebescite, since that kind of abuse is in effect breaking the law (of somewhere, I am sure, and possibly the guidelines of his ISP) and nobody wants to be a an accomplice to that. I am really sorry to dredge it back up, but I won't let Jeff twist in the wind, he has raised a point which must be discussed. (I am not quitting the list in protest with him over this, though, no matter how much I respect his priniciples.) Yes, I am definitely collecting valuable evidence for my conspiracy theory. The headers that have been examined to show that AlStewart11@hotmail was writing from the UK were very convincing, until you realize that The Grays or whoever is backing this hoax would be able to use satellites, employing anonymous accounts that are hacked into from cislunar orbit and possibly other non-local phenomenon to deploy their false identities, whether it is Kim, or Ian, or that Stewart chap, all of which are interchangeable facets of the ultimate puppetmasters. Oh yes... the truth is WAAAAAY out there. Jeremy ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:46:22 EDT From: Kimbis@aol.com Subject: Re: Brief encounter >And to bypass your own rules in order to do it is even quite another. And >when the action is taken by the absolute administrator, even quite another. The rules were NOT bypassed, they were ENFORCED. Numerous people contacted Muffy to suggest she consider removing Ian from the list. Be aware that this is, as far as I can recall, the ONLY time this action has ever been needed in 6 or 7 years. >Don't kid yourself into thinking it's not important for you to reverse this, >that's it just the Al list. The fact that it's "only" an Al Stewart list >makes it even more important to act civilly. >Com'n you guys, remember where you are! Yes, and it's why it's important to ENFORCE the rules as well as make them. Let's put it this way. If Ian comes back, I will be forced to leave . I refuse to sit by while someone implies Al is a lush. But perhaps the ASML has lost it's usefulness, and Muffy should consider dropping it entirely. The "Ian Situation" was a lot like being diagnosed with breast cancer. A mastectomy is not a pleasant option. Some people would rather die, so they do. When a cancer refuses to respond to less radical treatment, the options are a nasty scar or a tombstone. Muffy looked at the number of complaints she had recieved, and decided surgery was a better option then euthenasia. >standing up and publically demanding that the rules of the list be followed, >and that Ian be reinstated immediately. The rules of the list WERE followed. Muffy received numerous complaints, investigated, found them valid, and enforced the rules as they are laid out. - -- Kim ---- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:17:45 -0600 From: Yanuly Martin Sanson Athanasiadis Subject: Ian's Poll (Democratic Proposal) Ok. I propose a poll. I can set up a temporary address which can forward every note addressed to it to a number of volunteer ASMLers. By a given date, maybe one week, the voting acceptance stops. The volunteers count their votes and post the RESULTS (your vote is secret) to the list. I'll be receiving the volunteers names all weekend and by monday I'll post the list and set up the forwarding account. Time is essential for justice to be effective. So: - Volunteers accepted until August 30 - Names posted on the list and account created by August 31 - Votes accepted until September 3 (or later, you tell me) - Results posted individually by September 4 Of course, this is Muffy's and her decision is final but THERE IS interest in knowing if the majority wanted him out or not. Let's get it done or let go. ---- Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:21:15 +0100 From: "Scott Young" Subject: Re: Brief encounter Right. That's IT. I've kept very quiet on the "ian" thing, but I've had it now. This subject is like the Night Of The Zombies - it doesn't know when it's dead. My ONLY and LAST words on the subject: > He had to go. Period. It's one thing to express your own opinion, another to beat nice people over the head with it. He was personally and privately abusive to people he didn't know from Adam, which caused distress and anger to those on the receiving end - which, at last count, was all of us. He was removed literally as I was composing my request to dump him. If he was in my house at my cocktail party, he would have been thrown out on his ear even if he had brought Al himself. > Swearing had nothing to do with it. It was his inability to be pleasant for longer than one-half of one posting, and his thinking that abuse and always having the last word was witty. Wrong. > Flooding the listing with dozens of idiotic, insulting, abusive, bad-tempered rubbishy messages isn't big and it isn't clever. It wastes people's time, money and bandwidth. He did this in spades. My Delete button nearly wore out. > Anyone who knows me knows I don't suffer fools at all, let alone gladly. I didn't believe a word he said about anything. His postings were those I would expect of a teenager let loose on Daddy's computer while home alone, not a supposed adult. > Buffy did *absolutely* the right thing at *absolutely* the right time. I wholeheartedly support the action taken and applaud how he was given every chance to make amends. Face it - he threw himself off this list. > There are plenty of other lists available for those of a nasty and vindictive nature - I'm sure he find one soon enough that suits him to a tee. Flame away if you wish (it's your right), but I warn you that my heels are dug in on this one. I will say nothing else on the subject except that my mind is fixed, and nothing will change my opinion of the late unlamented one. "Ian" is dead - long live the good people of the ASML. "All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing." Sermon ends. Regards, >>Scott ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:50:35 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: the rules Here's what the "welcome" message says. ============ This list will not be moderated; however, if there is a large number of insipid, annoying, or useless postings from a single individual, I'll remove them if the members of the list send me enough requests (as a rule of thumb, I think if half of the people dislike someone enough to send me mail, that would warrant removal.) ============= As has been stated, it's Muffy's list, she can do what she wants. I am (obviously) firmly in the "goodbye if you can't fight nicely" camp. The people who have accused Muffy of violating her own rules are at least a little bit off-base though. Ian certainly qualified for removal by the standard set in the first sentence. As to the "half of the people" standard, in my mind anyway, a "rule of thumb" is a GENERAL guide, not a hard and fast level that must be breached before action can be taken. I'm also willing to bet that the "half" standard was set when there were a LOT fewer people on the list (dozens, at most). I haven't heard a population count in quite a while, but I believe at one time the list was up to several hundred people. It may be lower than that now (especially recently). I doubt if you could get half the list to send Muffy email if you offered an autographed photo of Al. Besides, I would also suspect that at least half of the "active" membership of the list probably DID write Muffy and complain. If people really feel strongly enough about this to quit as a result, I have two thoughts. 1: That is certainly your right, and I respect your principles, even if I believe you are mistaken. 2: I'll be really sorry to see you go. JSR ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:55:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Carroll Subject: Re: Brief encounter On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Scott Young wrote: > Buffy did *absolutely* the right thing at *absolutely* the right time. No, no; Buffy slays vampires; Muffy slays assholes. As long as we're doing our little pieces on this: my personal view is that Ian was an abusive little asshole who seriously impaired the value of this list. Muffy apparently felt the same, and, as is her perogative, dumped his sorry ass. I'd expect the same treatment if I acted that way. And, even if I didn't, I concede that this list is Muffy's own, and she gets to dump who she wants for whatever reason she wants. (I'm not sure where this voting concept came from. I don't recall it.) Oh, and... On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 Jatras@aol.com wrote: > If Ian isn't reinstated, I will unsubscribe. I won't have a choice. Not true. You will have a choice. It sounds like your choice will be to unsubscribe. If so, I, and I expect a lot of others, will miss you. But you do have that choice. ---- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:52:36 -0700 From: patrick meyer Subject: Le Affaire d'Ian I've decided to come out of my closet and stand and speak. As a lurker of late and a reader of all messages I was not impressed, amused, enlightened, edified, or in any way say any improvement to the list or to my life resulted from the messages that Ian posted. This is 180 degrees from the rest of the posters on the list. Wines, AL, history, FA Cup finals, fottball, comorants, and many other items of information and smiles and sometimes even sadness has come from the members. My feel was that Ian was like a school yard bully (of which I know of lot of late having to deal with one with my young son) - out to provoke and throw himself around in the belief that he was the most important person. I agree with Steve of American Embassy branch of Freeserve that if Ian had behaved that way in my house I would have tossed him out on his derrier. I agree with Kim that abusive people are not needed and Muffy has the right to remove those from the community. It's not a free speach issue to me but one of common decensy and provoking a riot whihc is not a protected itme in the US or the UK or France. Common decency and the family atmosphere around here and the past activities seems to be that one can discipline the family memeber who disrupts dinner or the party and when they keep on going on then they get banished to another room until they learn and behave. I think this was done. I wrote Buffy the Ian slayer and added my silent majority voice to those who publicly voiced theirs. I liked the list and the way it progressed before Ian (BI), I enjoyed reading the stories about your lives as it spun around Al, the song reviews (even made me listen to Jackdaw one more time when it came around for discussion. "I got better .."), the show reviews, even liked reading "Model Delenda Est " and American football, and not to forget Swindon may they rise again and someday win the cup (like me and Chicago Cubs baseball and St. Etienne - this may be their year!). I never had the need to kill file any one in this group, I disagreed and thought some deserved to meet Dimsdale or Spiny Norman but never banishedment until Ian arrived. I wish to be a henchman, I've got a black coat, I can do a reasonable hunchback imitation, I like cats, wine and Al but not pink lycra. I will now return to lurking and vicarious enjoyment of the family and sip my gin and tonic (Bombay, two jiggers in a pint glass, Schwepes tonic and a splash of Roses if you please). ---- Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:48:25 -0500 From: "Sebastian Melmoth" Subject: Re: the rules > Here's what the "welcome" message says. > > ============ > This list will not be moderated; however, if there is a large number of > insipid, annoying, or useless postings from a single individual, I'll > remove them if the members of the list send me enough requests (as a > rule of thumb, I think if half of the people dislike someone enough to > send me mail, that would warrant removal.) > ============= [snip] > > The people who have accused Muffy of violating her own rules are at > least a little bit off-base though. Ian certainly qualified for removal > by the standard set in the first sentence. As to the "half of the > people" standard, in my mind anyway, a "rule of thumb" is a GENERAL > guide, not a hard and fast level that must be breached before action can > be taken. I'm also willing to bet that the "half" standard was set when > there were a LOT fewer people on the list Truth to tell, unless my beer-addled brain very much fails me, I seem to recall first reading the exact words of that 'rule' SIX YEARS AGO, which would mean it's probably not Muffy's rule at all, but Dan's. A very fine legal quibble, perhaps, but like Sir Abraham Haphazard, I specialise in very fine legal quibbles. Anyway, I'm quite out of practice at this, but here goes . . . Sometimes it seems unimaginable the list was ever any other way, Peter White updates, talk of Gloucester Close, Embroidered tales and tanks from Jane's. Now it's a well-known place Through all of cyberspace As where the list trolls consternate. Oh, I sip all night but *digest* too fast. I don't read what you're trying to say. I swear, Al, A flock not of one feather discovers Some cuckoos; A cormorant is nobody's plover. I've got a one-way ticket for death.corp yesterdays. I know the addie said 'Al-Stewart List' But we've been through this a million times. And MTV viewers with our sound byte styles Need variety and that's just fine. So we hitch a thread to every passing thought And take a Carvajal-iday. Till the posts flow 'round us in a packet stream And another mule begins to bray. 'Reach out, Pentium chip from Intel and 'net software. I know more URLs that can take me anywhere. There must be more out there.' Sometimes it seems impossible Muffy's bandwidth is enough, But the fly is cast and the thread reels out and some more members sign off. So I set myself back to lurking mode And I slip in one of Al's cassettes, And the screen goes dim as the music starts And it's easy to forget. Apologies, but as I said, I'm rather rusty. Brian ---- Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:36:24 +0300 (EET DST) From: Michael Jasper Subject: [none] Ian who? I have to be honest: the earthquake in Turkey performed a traumatic amputation to all my saved e-mail messages, and I was gone for a week helping find victims in Istanbul and Bolu. When I finally got back into my office on the 25th, all the new messages were about someone named Ian. And then I almost fell for the "Al Stewart" hoax which was, apparently, perpetrated by this same Ian. And now he's gone, and I never even had the chance to be insulted by him. As someone who's receieved my share of abusive private e-mails, I say rules-schmules. Private messages--and he seems to have sent them--go beyond the pale. You all have over the years helped me read guitar tabs, helped me find tickets to Al's shows, laughed at my joke song lyrics, and tolerated right-wing tirades. Long live all of you. And Terry, I saw the new Cleveland stadium about a month ago. It's the coolest. --Mike in Ankara ---- Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:30:30 -0700 From: Tom Moohan Subject: Blood on the Tracks I have just read a posting which contains the following words/phrases of wisdom: selfish as heck go the heck away hypocritical ninny suddenly seemingly Gee. What was he thinking? This comes hard on the tail of the scintillating bird pun outbreak. Straw, camel and back are words which spring to mind. Cocktail party? Vicars' Tea Party, more like. It seems that that the list has become a medium for overarching jejuneness, and I feel that it is time for me to take my leave. In the words of a long forgotten band from my home town of Birmingham, England, We've Got a Fuzz box and We're Gonna Use It: "There must be more to life, than this". I leave you with some thoughts relevant to recent discussion: NOTFOM: Doesn't anybody think that the narrator may be Mr. Stewart himself? We have the admission that the the first four albums are largely autobiographical, and the reference to Cambridge appears in many interviews, and BDD. NRI: Anybody ever consider that this song may be a lament? Maybe even for the person mentioned in the liner notes of the CD? The lyrics, which appear trite to some, make much more sense in this context. Sure, Al has been known to write the occasional throw-away lyric, but he never wastes a breath-taking guitar solo, muso that he undoubtedly is. Al just adores Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen. Honestly. I'm not making up. We're talking major hard-on here, I jest you not. He's probably of a liberal persuasion! Leftish maybe! Based on lyrics, interviews, favourite authors and so on, he is almost certainly an atheist and an existentialist. Don't shoot me, I come in peace! Monsieur Gomeche's departure was, in all honesty, inevitable. The manner of his expulsion remains somewhat dubious, but this is no longer any concern of mine. I wish you all well. Good night And may your god go with you. Tom By the way, Alex. In response to the assertion that "You people really do like to jump on people for no good reason. Maybe Ian was right." , I should mention that I did not respond when you gave YOTC and the TP as examples of Al's penchant for "hooks". Pointing out that the music for these songs was written by Peter Wood and Peter White, respectively, seemed churlish at the time. ---- Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:38:25 EDT From: Kimbis@aol.com Subject: Re: Blood on the Tracks >This comes hard on the tail of the scintillating bird pun outbreak. >Straw, camel and back are words which spring to mind. Cocktail party? >Vicars' Tea Party, more like. Ah. But in a world where coarse language is the norm, the only way to GET attention is studied restraint. You don't even notice the person spewing a string of invective anymore. But if someone who is controlling an absolutely purple rage you tells you through clenched teeth they are "perturbed" .... >It seems that that the list has become a medium for overarching >jejuneness, and I feel that it is time for me to take my leave. That's novel. Someone who says he'll leave because people are attempting to be polite. >NOTFOM: Doesn't anybody think that the narrator may be Mr. Stewart >himself? Oh, quite probably. Al was entirely capable of having been a typical, hormonal twenty year old. In fact, people who have known him since the 60s have uniformly told me that Al very much enjoyed some of the "perks" of being a young, popular, moderately attractive young musician at the time. >NRI: Anybody ever consider that this song may be a lament? Maybe even for >the person mentioned in the liner notes of the CD? Almost certainly. That doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that 20/20 hindsight doesn't make it clear that the narrator "made his own bed" as it were. >Al just adores Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen. Honestly. I'm not making up. >We're talking major hard-on here, I jest you not. Definately. >He's probably of a liberal persuasion! Leftish maybe! >Based on lyrics, interviews, favourite authors and so on, he is almost >certainly an atheist and an existentialist. Don't shoot me, I come in >peace! Could be. Maybe not too. There are thoughtful people in all parts of the political and spiritual spectrum. Just because the Pope and the Dali Lama, for example, come from extremely different spiritual viewpoints does not mean one of them is an "atheist". And one frighteningly right wing person I know adores what is generally thought of as left wing literature. (It's how we "met" in fact. Very nice person, so long as we talk about eclipses and our cats rather then anything having to do with politics.) >I should mention that I did not respond when you gave YOTC and the TP as >examples of Al's penchant for "hooks". Pointing out that the music for >these songs was written by Peter Wood and Peter White, respectively, >seemed churlish at the time. Ah ... but it IS a valid point. Al writes wonderful lyrics, but perhaps he DOES need someone else to bounce ideas off of to add a commercial "bite" to things. I think it's safe to say that while some of it is/was excellent very little Lennon or McCartney material comes close to what the collaboration produced. It would not be at all unusual for Al to need something similar. You should have brought it up. Interesting point. Al's own musical writing is wonderful, but that doesn't make it MARKETABLE. (After all, wasn't it Van Gogh that didn't sell a single painting in his lifetime?) - -- Kim ---- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:06:44 EDT From: Jatras@aol.com Subject: Ian Sorry to add this after the last post, but I would at least like to say that Ian toned down a bit, you might want to temper justice with mercy. Just a suggestion however, and the last one you'll hear from me on the subject. Honest. Jeff (who furthermore, affiant sayeth not) ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:03:37 -0700 From: Ann or Gregg Dunphy Subject: Re: Ian and Bill Jatras@aol.com wrote: > > Sorry to add this after the last post, but I would at least like to say that > Ian toned down a bit, you might want to temper justice with mercy. SLAGIATT* *Seems Like A Good Idea At This Time I will spare us all the legal windage; it doesn't apply. This is a private list and Muffy is entitled to include or exclude anyone at her pleasure. I find the timing of Bill Kerr's return to be interesting (Welcome back Bill, I missed your posts these last couple of years) given that (as I recall - and if I'm remembering this incorrectly I *do* appologise and I do not intend to offend Bill or anyone else by this) he, like Ian, used the "f" word shortly before his departure from th ASML. I don't know Ian and I'm sure I never will. Nevertheless, I believe that, in light of what Jeff has related he, like anyone else, deserves a second chance. Tolerance is not only logical, it is essential. Muffy, at this time I am asking you to undertake or allow as the vehicle requires, the reinstatement of Ian to the ASML. In concluding, if he (Ian) is allowed to return and gets himself booted a second time, I won't speak up for him. After all, this isn't baseball. Gregg ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:51:54 -0700 From: Laura.G@141.com (Laura Gharazeddine) Subject: Re: Ian and Bill Yes, I'd like to second that motion-reinstate Ian... Laura G. in so. Cal ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:22:45 -0700 From: Laura.G@141.com (Laura Gharazeddine) Subject: Fw: Ian and Bill Sorry, I meant to send to the ASML-where's my mind tonight?! Laura G. > No one's been "working " on me. I'm not a person who's easily swayed, BUT-I > belong to several mailing lists and actually I find Ian much less offensive > and much less ignorant and bigoted than many of the people I've run > across-in "real" life and on some other lists. I find him sometimes > amusing-and hardly ever dull! And yes, we've been writing. > > I haven't been posting much lately as I've been going through a very > difficult time and just haven't had much energy to join in the fray. > Besides, I don't always feel the need to join in each and every > brawl/argument/ discussion/ flaming/ whatever one would like to call it. I > only join in when I feel personally under attack. I haven't felt personally > attacked by Ian. And I haven't felt any of my beliefs/values personally > attacked. I tend to save my aggression for political and social conscience > issues. THEN, I'll join in the fray. Sorry, only have a limited amount of > energies and prefer to save them for more important things. > > I'm not into censor-ship and I DO know how to use my delete key. (Just as if > I don't want to see certain movies or TV shows-I don't watch.) > > I belong to another list where in the past 6 months people have been > attacked for everything from politics and religion to women not wanting to > express themselves through reproduction and not remaining virgins untill > married! And this is a list regarding a TV show whose main message was > tolerance and diversity in society! Again, I look at what I wish, respond to > what I wish and delete the rest. But, mostly, with all the bigotted > nastiness of calling people sluts and such-it's dull-as bigotry and forcing > ones values on others-usually is. > > Well, I guess I've said my peace. It's off to Thera-flu-land for me! > > Oh-flame away, folks-can't be worse than what I've been through in "real" > life the last few weeks! > > Laura G. in so. Cal. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 12:55 AM > Subject: Re: Ian and Bill > > > > Has he been working on you too, or have you been passively observing > without > > interacting? ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:03:41 EDT From: Kimbis@aol.com Subject: Re: Ian and Bill >Muffy, at this time I am asking you to undertake or allow as the vehicle >requires, the reinstatement of Ian to the ASML. I repeat. Ian returns, I leave. I have encountered his type on the net before, and I refuse to put up with it again. - -- Kim ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:58:20 EDT From: Jatras@aol.com Subject: Re: Ian and Bill In a message dated 8/31/99 2:06:58 AM Central Daylight Time, aldgsd@earthlink.net writes: > In concluding, if he (Ian) is allowed to return and gets himself booted > a second time, I won't speak up for him. After all, this isn't baseball. > I second that emotion. However, before any reinstatement should occur, a wise man once emailed me that someone in Ian's position should: "Write a petition (a post via a proxy)that indicates a desire to be a responsible member of the group and includes remorse for the upset(s) caused. If a major portion of the group (via email signature) decided to allow him/her back, then he/she could be welcomed back." With a few minor changes, this sounds like a formula to suit everyone. What do you think? ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:20:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeff Richter" Subject: Re: Ian and Bill > > In a message dated 8/31/99 2:06:58 AM Central Daylight Time, > aldgsd@earthlink.net writes: > > > In concluding, if he (Ian) is allowed to return and gets himself booted > > a second time, I won't speak up for him. After all, this isn't baseball. > > > > I second that emotion. However, before any reinstatement should occur, a > wise man once emailed me that someone in Ian's position should: > > "Write a petition (a post via a proxy)that indicates a desire to be a > responsible member of the group and includes remorse for the upset(s) caused. > If a major portion of > the group (via email signature) decided to allow him/her back, then he/she > could be welcomed back." > > With a few minor changes, this sounds like a formula to suit everyone. What > do you think? > > I think that as of this morning I started receiving abusive emails from Ian. Therefore, It would appear that after a week or so cooling off period he still hasn't calmed down. I have to agree with Kim - if he come back, I'm out of here (I realise to some of you that sounds like a reason to bring him back!). JSR ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:47:01 -0700 From: David Hollister Subject: Re: Ian and Bill Kimbis@aol.com wrote: > > >Muffy, at this time I am asking you to undertake or allow as the vehicle > >requires, the reinstatement of Ian to the ASML. > > I repeat. Ian returns, I leave. I have encountered his type on the net > before, > and I refuse to put up with it again. > > -- Kim I'm with Kim. Nobody probably cares about me leaving, but let's get real. I'm probably a bleeding heart more often than not, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how to behave, and it's not something you change about yourself, especially at somebody else's request. ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Pam Cantrell Subject: Re: Ian and Bill I didn't enter the fray when the Ian issue was in full force, but with its resurgence I feel I need to comment. I don't understand the outpouring of sympathy for Ian. He added nothing positive to the list, and merely increased the number of messages of a kind that many of us didn't care to have cluttering up our mailboxes. (Yes, I did read them.) I probably won't leave the list if he is reinstated--I enjoy the rest of you too much, and I have the handy "block address" button--but I certainly don't see any point to inviting him back. Pam desertsiren@yahoo.com ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:35:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "D.P." Subject: The Ian Issue - --- Jeff Richter wrote: > > > I think that as of this morning I started receiving > abusive emails from Ian. Therefore, It would appear that after a week > or so cooling off > period he still hasn't calmed down. I have to agree > with Kim - - if he come > back, I'm out of here. ***** I would likely do the same thing (unsubscribe). What is that old saying? "A leopard doesn't change his spots"? - --Diane ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:41:21 -0700 (PDT) From: mousethief Subject: Re: Ian and Bill > Kimbis@aol.com wrote: > > > > I repeat. Ian returns, I leave. I have encountered his type on > > the net before, and I refuse to put up with it again. I have had an off-list correspondence with Ian since this whole flap started. He has maintained an air of belligerence and (ironically) oh-so-chic martyrdom throughout the affair and to the present. He has not shown any contrition for what he did, or indeed any understanding that he did anything (other than complain about off-topic posts). Nor does he seem willing to let bygones be bygones -- he has MAJOR grudges against some members of the list and seems incapable of realizing that his actions had anything to do with theirs. I see no benefit to be accrued from letting him back on the list, and many drawbacks. Alas, I fear I must also vote "NO." Alex "the Strong" Riggle ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:04:00 EDT From: JKumin@aol.com Subject: Re: The Ian Issue-- Martin Luther or Lex Luther? OK, I have a new theory. I am not throwing away the Al=Kim=Ian one, it has merit, but I am now collecting evidence that Ian is actually Ralph McTell, or some other professional rival of Al's who wants to break up the ASML by creating a schism between those of us that found him amusing, if misguided and a bit churlish at times, and those of us that either didn't get his sense of humor due to transatlantic colloquialism barriers or who thought (rightly or wrongly) that he was attacking them personally. It would appear that he has some supporters, and some detractors, and he won't be happy until everyone takes a side. It might not matter to him which one, because I can tell that he enjoys having enemies in an ironic sort of way. Maybe we can head this off at the pass, so that none of the following transpires, but I fear this is a multiple choice ballot, with no write in space. + We decide collectively to let him back, if even probationally, and lose the really valuable input and perspective of Kim, Diane, David (Terry?) and Jeff (not to mention their feeling betrayed) and possibly some others. + We keep things as they are and a different group of people at least as large have a very sour taste in their mouths about the issue. A tang that is reminiscent of when you wanted to stick up for the kid on the playground that was being blackballed, but decided instead it was more important to fit in with the group. I, for one, will not leave just to show Ian that I am tolerant of his ways, but I can't say that makes me feel proud, either. +We 'encourage' those who want to correspond with Ian to start their own Al-ternaSML. Don't laugh. It's happening as we speak, and that's the schism of which I spoke. Whoever Ian is fronting for, whoever wants to weaken us by dividing our strength and limiting our diversity, be they an extraterrestrial, a jealous folkie, or just a record exec that hates to see Al have the last laugh... they might win. Has anyone a fourth alternative that I am missing? Can Rodney King be recruited to show us how we could all get along? TFPIC Jeremy (That's ...firmly planted in cheek, a variation on a TLA that IKG used repeatedly which took me a while to recognize. If I didn't get that he was using "TIC" in lieu of smiley's [and I am not attacking him for avoiding their use, Terry] I might have taken him more seriously a few times and been highly offended by what he said. It's strange and disconcerting how all the meaning can pivot so easily on one clue like that.) ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: nyutko@ptd.net (Nicholas Yutko) Subject: Re: Ian and Bill (no Al!) David Hollister wrote: >I'm with Kim. Nobody probably cares about me leaving, but let's get real. I'm >probably a bleeding heart more often than not, but it doesn't take a rocket >scientist to know how to behave, and it's not something you change about >yourself, especially at somebody else's request. Yeah, let's get serious here. Over the years I've noticed a number of ASML members who liked to incite, but Ian takes the cake. During the short period he was on the list, my e-mail folder was filled with tons of crap because of him and I'd rather not have that happen again. Oh... and welcome back, Bill! I wonder how things would have gone, had you been here. Here's Ian's e-mail that started it all back on 08/18. You've dealt with this sort of thing before, as I recall: >i have been a fan of al stewart since early 70's. as i have been a bit out of touch with his recent work (he hardly ever tours in u.k. now - at least compared to the earlier days). i therefore thought that i would subscrible to the al stewart newsletter. to my annoyance i keep being bonbarded with emails which have nothing much to do with mr. stewart. please can i ask you all to keep postings to the newsletter RELEVANT or find another more appropriate newsletter of which there are zillions. I still have Bill Kerr's reply from nearly two years ago filed away, which I found immensely amusing and effective. He was responding to an e-mail just like Ian's. Here for the collective enjoyment of the list is that historic response: >"Oh great, here we go again. Nate must be new." >Nate, this problem comes up cyclically on this list. The majority of the members enjoy the diversity of topics, especially considering that the artist in question doesn't release new albums very often. Impolite people (as I sometimes am) would tell you to go pound sand, if you don't like the list leave, what the hell do you know about the premise of this newsgroup (which is defined by it's members, not by it's name) and so on in that vein. Nice people (as I sometimes am) try to explain how eclectic the tastes of the members are, construct an analogy of a group of smart, friendly people talking about whatever they want in someone's living room between sets by Al Stewart, or that you just have to be patient and it's easier to delete than to gripe anyway (this isn't necessarily true for digest readers) and that all topics will pass in time (except Hipposong). >The bottom line is that we have to police ourselves. Most of us who are vocal have said that without the non-Al stuff the list would be dull. The people who desire a higher Al-content ratio have asked that the rest at least use the subject line to identify non-Al posts (which we do try to do). I understand your complaint, but the realities of this particular list simply do not support the kind of focused content you want. I agree with you that there's been a lot of non-Al bandwidth lately, but bear in mind that it was started by a post that was either quite ill-considered or was intended as bait for this kind of off-topic discussion. Now that we are getting concert reports from Al's first UK tour in ages, I think the non-Al stuff will die of it's own weight. But it WILL happen again, so if it really pisses you off that much, you might as well save yourself the blood-pressure medication and leave the list. I do not mean that in an unfriendly way and I hope you'll stay on the list because I see value in a larger membership. But the amount of emotionally charged non-Al related rhetoric gets pretty high sometimes. I think you must have missed the whole Cat Stevens thing, as well as the Projects, the teachers' salaries and so on (be grateful). It was so weird that Bill showed up right after Ian was booted. Nick ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:24:54 -0500 From: "Castelluccio, Pete" Subject: Ian's Poll Being one myself, I can assure everyone that Kim's hencemen make up over 50% of the ASML. Thus voting for Ian's return would be about as exciting as a politburo vote during Stalin's day. ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:54:14 EDT From: JKumin@aol.com Subject: Time Passages (is actually agit prop masked as Al content, or humor, or both) As I am listening to TP, a couple of things occurred to me, lyrically, that I wanted to share. In a humorous light, the "Ian situation" is too much of a gentle misnomer for a brouhaha. And then there is this about Lucy: There's something that enables her to rise above it all To shrug it off, just when it seems to go too far. We all need to take that to heart, I think, from all sides of the coin. Speaking of coins, there is a song in The Mystery of Edwin Drood (by Rupert Holmes, of "Escape" fame, to harken back a couple of weeks) about both sides of them, and it made me think about the thread we had years ago about bifurcation. That's when you split the world ... well, here's an example or two: People are divided into three groups: those that are good at math and those that aren't. The world is divided into two groups: Those who are paranoid schizophrenics and those that aren't. Regarding paranoid behavior, there is also a division into two groups: ourselves and the rest of the world, who is clearly out to get us. Schizophrenics, however, are merely divided into two. The vast majority of people fit into one of two categories: those that bifurcate people according to some criteria, and those that don't. I hope my point is clear. Not that I know what it is, exactly, but I always want clarity. I have to leave the house now and go to work. Don't have any big town meetings or do anything rash like pulling the plug on this list while I am gone, OK? Jeremy ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:33:03 +0100 From: "Ray Miller" Subject: Re: ian's poll (how do I vote?) > Ok. Let's take the Ian debate out of the list. As I proposed, a poll > will be done to answer the question: > Should Ian have been removed from the list? what a list. we have the biggest row since I arrived here and what does the asml do? it proposes a bloody poll:)) the following will probably get me in big trouble with a few people on this list, maybe even deleted from the list, but so be it. though I won't post anything else on the subject unless i desperately need to clarify something or answer specific questions. i have spoken to steve hall, and ian gomeche, and I have now seen three sides of the arguement. i must say that steve has been very eloquent. i have misgivings about the whole thing. i now know that ian is not quite the troll I thought he was. he says he has joined the fairport list and is not causing the same stir there (it might be interesting if someone who is also on the fairport list can confirm this, privately?). he learned a lot from the debacle and is not about to repeat the experience. on the other hand we hear that he is sending mail to jeff richter, which cannot help his cause. and we have a statement from various people saying that they will leave if he is re-instated. none of this is helpful or encouraging if he is re-instated presumably he will be asked for a public apology, which I believe he is prepared to offer. i think however that he will never be allowed to forget the matter. like an adulterous husband he has 'broken the rules' and various listies will bring this up time and again, until he is forced away again. but maybe mail filters will be enough to hold this off for a few months until people cool off. those people who say they will leave the list if he is re-instated - you had better go now. he is almost certainly listening to every word we say, and maybe even contributing as i type. alstewart11@hotmail.com was allowed onto the list (and possible withdrawn again), but will you be able to stop alfan@easysetup.co.uk? or fred.bloggs@quicklink.net? there are several dozen free isp's in the uk. you can't stop ian from lurking even if you want to stop him from joining in. my feeling is everyone involved, myself, ian, jeff, kim, diane, to name but a few, all reacted very naively. instead of letting the arguements die away we all cross posted each other, and everything blew way out of proportion. if any one of us had left off posting for another few hours this may have all blown over before it got started. my view is (and i realize that it's really muffy's view _only_ that matters) is that after a cooling off period of say a month, he should either be allowed back on the list, with 1a. an open apology from _both_ sides, or 1b. no apology from either side. 2. noone mentions the war 3. anyone who starts anything will have their typing fingers lopped off at the listserve (permanently deleted from the list) 4. anyone who doesn't wish to receive mail from any of the usual suspects now knows how to put a filter on any of our mail addresses failing this, and i for one don't believe that we will be adult enough to implement the above. i think that ian should return to the list using an alter ego, and a new address. once he is safely ensconced and posting messages and everyone is happy (might take a month or a year) he can publically apologise and 'come out', and hopefully carry on from there. so there you have it folks. either you let ian back openly or you suspect every new listie. every hotmail account, every uk account, every redirector account. every time somone posts all in lowercase, or uses bad language, they will be suspected of being ian. not a very satisfactory position is it? ray - -- ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:45:37 -0400 From: Jolayne White Subject: To Ian or not to Ian Ian was obnoxious and annoying. He got everyone upset and had to be stopped. That said, I still don't agree with how we stopped him. No one sent him anything that said stop now or be removed. No one formally said let's vote, do we remove him or not. That's what a lot of us feel bad about. I think I can safely say that no one is condoning the kind of behavior he exhibited, but some of us feel a bit bad about how quickly we nuked him. A proposal to make everyone feel like justice was fairly done: he comes back, but only by the good graces of Kim, Diane, and Jeff Richter. Any time a majority of those three says he's gone, he's gone. Right away, no warnings, no questions, just gone. Two of them drop Muffy a note saying he's gone too far, and she removes him. Am I correcting in assuming that if those three can tolerate him, all of the rest of us can? And am I also correct in assuming that they will be fair? I don't know Diane very well, I don't remember her posting much before the Ian thing arose, but I trust Kim and Jeff to give him as much chance as he deserves. Thoughts? Jolayne ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:33:43 +0100 From: "Scott Young" Subject: Re: Ian and Bill Totally and completely concur. He had his chances - and then some. If Ian and his opinions return, then I'm off as well (like anyone will really care, but personally I will miss the buzz of the list). I will not spend my hard-earned money and time collecting huge amounts of his abusive, insulting, and idiotically vitriolic rubbish via my phone line into the sanctity of my own home. If I want to waste time, have my intelligence insulted, feel threatened, be patronised, and witness juvenile behaviour, I can do it for free by sitting in on a session at The House Of Commons. Which I won't. I wonder what Al will think when he drops in and reads about letting someone who insults his friends back into the "party". ---- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:40:59 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: Re: To Ian or not to Ian I'm trying VERY VERY hard to stay out of this. But since my name has come up a few times, I thought I'd restate the "Nazi" point of view. First, for what it's worth, Ian apparently *IS* still on the list, either as a lurker under an alternate email address, or through reading the archives (Hi Ian!). I know this because less than an hour after posting a message to the list this morning, I received a private email from Ian quoting that message. (I suppose someone could have forwarded it to him as well...) As I wrote to Alex earlier today, I think his (Alex's) post best summed up the situation regarding Ian's attitude. For those who may have missed it, allow me to publish an excerpt from Alex. "He has maintained an air of belligerence and (ironically) oh-so-chic martyrdom throughout the affair and to the present. He has not shown any contrition for what he did, or indeed any understanding that he did anything (other than complain about off-topic posts). Nor does he seem willing to let bygones be bygones -- he has MAJOR grudges against some members of the list and seems incapable of realizing that his actions had anything to do with theirs." As one who I think it is safe to assume is one that Ian has a grudge against (given that I have three emails in my inbox from Ian telling me that I have moved from third to first on his list of people "who hate him the most" - and yes, he does mention several other names that he feels are also on that list) let me also go on record as saying that immediately after his expulsion from the list, I wrote to Steve (aust) that I felt with a cooling-off period Ian would be welcomed back to the list and I would support that. (Steve presumably can confirm that if anybody has any doubts.) My problems were not with Ian as a person, it was with the way he behaved on a list that I have grown quite fond of. And even Ian may be able to confirm that I did make outreaches to him during his tenure on the list, inquiring about his career with computers and even offering to purchase liquid refreshment for him if I make it to the Al Concert in London this November. (as an aside, I am reliably informed that in the UK the word is spelled "arsehole" - a question - is the R pronounced, or silent?) Now to Jolayne's email... > No one sent him anything that said stop now or be removed. I think there were certainly implicit warnings, if not explicit ones, that his behavior was disruptive and would not be tolerated forever. > A proposal to make everyone feel like justice was fairly done: he comes > back, but only by the good graces of Kim, Diane, and Jeff Richter. Any > time a majority of those three says he's gone, he's gone. Right away, no > warnings, no questions, just gone. Two of them drop Muffy a note saying > he's gone too far, and she removes him. > I cannot speak for Kim & Diane, but speaking for myself (I'm the nazi, remember?), I have a problem with anybody (other than Muffy) being given that kind of power. I do not intend even to vote in the Yanuly poll. The Ian situation is an aberration. I cannot recall ANYBODY ever rising anywhere close to the level where even vague back-of-the-mind consideration has been given to forcible removal from the list. If anybody cares to disagree or say that they have given *serious* consideration to requesting MY removal from the list, I would love to hear about it. (And if I do hear from even ONE person that that is true, I will leave voluntarily and immediately. And yes, I am serious about this, so please don't respond in the affirmative unless you are also serious about wanting me to leave.) MANY people were driven to that level by Ian, made that known, and he still persisted in his misbehavior. Final notes: Ray Miller wrote: Subject: Running Man Body: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ian gomeche > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:10 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: [LORD GNOME] invitation > > > > 1. sylvia morris is an idiot simply put.she does not have a job as far as > i > > can see. at one point she and i were exchanging up to 20 emails a day then > > she got paranoind that 'they' would find out that she was talking to me > > > > . prior to this she had posted to ASML that it should be called the al > > stewart maUling list . someone else then posted that it should just be > > called 'the mauling list' as al stewart would not want his name associated > > with it. on another occassion jolayne white, who is highly respected, > posted > > that she would inform al's manager about another vicious flame war and > what > > was going on on ASML in stewart';s name. this had nothing to me. jolayne > > did much to defend me (several of them threatened to resign if i was not > > reinstated. kim dywer however threatened to resign if i was allowed to > stay. > > this is something she would of course never do as being the 'big cheese' > on > > ASML gives her a role in life (she goes to parties at al's house but does > > not ,i believe, know him quite as well as she claims.) > > manager steve chapman wrote to me saying that stewart was not involved in > > comcept,design,content,maintenance,views expressed etc etc of ASML and > > really it should be regarded as a private club so what they did was no > > concern of his. i replied 'fair enough' but if they are passing themselves > > off as THE official worldwide al stewart fan club/site as they are , that > is > > rather naughty. as he never addressed this point,in out next phone > > conversation this would suggest that he agrees with me. he asked me to go > > off and set up a u.k. based al stewart list so that was how the'gnome > list' > > was born. he also said that i could run the mojo now 'guardian' newspaper > > (probably) story past him so we could see how many al plugs we could > > include. in the FAQ kim dyer concedes that there is no evidence trhat al > has > > ever read ASML and certainly never posted. bit odd if she is so pally with > > him. if you were a mega star would you read all morrises rantings and jeff > > 'von' richter's (and his flying circus) right wing rabid views.? of course > > not. > > > > laurence juber IS however on the list although he has never posted. he > was > > on lord gnome for a while. when he unsubscribed i tried to entice him to > > stay by offering him a night out with diane at our expense. diane is > another > > star of the list 'i am a good girl ,i never swear, i just type 'fuck' and > > post it to 200 people twice in one day'. juber,being a man of taste, was > > less than keen. > > > > i thought 'poly' was a girlie. well you would wouldn't you? shucks. never > > mind you are welcome anyway! > > > > > > ian > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: 04 November 1999 08:46 > > Subject: Re: Fw: [LORD GNOME] invitation > > > > > > > Yeah, sure sounds great (He says knowing there are only so many > > > hours in the day, and his own music has been neglected lately, due to > > > excessive net-time,but frankly is too die-hard an Al fan to say no!) > > > A couple of questions: > > > Who is Sylvia? This one is probably cheating BUT... > > > Does Al ever read this list (ASML or LG)or does he want nothing to > > > do with it? > > > Did you say that you knew Al back then or just saw some of those early > > shows? > > > (Green with envy ;-)) looking forward to your list > > > Poly (Paul Ellis) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:16:20 -0400 From: "Paul Feldman" Subject: Lurker speaks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_02F6_01BEF6F0.D32A47E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forgive me for bringing this up again, but recent calls for ian's = reinstatement or a "trial period" have prompted what is my first post in = about 2 years. Feel free to ignore this - but I NEED to say it: =20 Someone called for the lurking masses to be heard, and here I am (a bit = late perhaps, but the Bruce tour ate into my digest-reading time). =20 Muffy, you did good! Keep ian off! Calls for his reinstatement because = he's entitled to a "second chance" are absurd. He already blew his = second, third and fourth chances. =20 As an arrogant, egotistical, foul-mouthed name-dropper (did anyone else = notice that at least half of the celebrities ian claimed to know took = their own lives? Hmmm...), I have a hunch this was not the first = cocktail party he's been thrown out of and I can't feel sorry for him. = In a matter of days: =20 - - He trashed the group for off-topic posts (and never made an on-topic = post since). =20 - - He copied people's private emails to the list (don't say he didn't = know about it - we endured TWO rounds of this indignation). =20 - - He bragged about his high IQ without ever revealing what field of = human endeavor he dedicated this massive brainpower to (we can rule out = writing, logic and common sense). Hopefully, in his short time on the = list, he learned useful things (like that it's possible, in a group of = several hundred, for more than one person to be named Scott. Duh!). =20 And when people resisted his foul-mouthed arrogance, he ran crying to = the police (Boo f***-ing Hoo!) =20 And, while I understand people's (knee-jerk?) inclination to rise up = against anything that looks like censorship, this mailing list is as = open, frank and, at times, controversial as any forum I've ever = participated in - and this is the first time in the more than 4 years = I've been here that anyone has even come close to being expelled. (I = expect that a vote of the full membership - if feasible - would back up = Muffy's action.) =20 This wasn't a case of censorship - it was a case of civility. ian had = ample opportunities to contribute to this group in a constructive way. = He chose not to. Life is tough and sometimes a boor gets what he = deserves. With his IQ, I'm sure he'll learn a valuable lesson ;-) =20 - - One of Kim's henchmen (Uh oh! should I expect a visit from the local = constabulary?) =20 Paul G. Feldman trotglobe@worldnet.att.net ----- Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:43:59 +0100 From: "Scott Young" Subject: The forbidden one I will not waste any space or your time here unnecessarily, except to say that I have received an abusive, threatening email from someone we all know who recently made many people highly unhappy - including me - and who also coped it to several other list members. This email contains several lies about myself and my words which I strongly refute. To respect Muffy's very sensible wishes, keep rubbish off the list and avoid starting this inane subject again, if anyone wishes to receive a copy, please email me privately for it and for my measured response. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone promoting his reinstatement. Thank you. Cheerio, >>Scott "In vini, veritas!" ----- Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:37:33 -0400 From: Laurie Alice Eakes Subject: Does Anyone Know I'm sure you are all getting these annoying emails. I find it particularly annoying since I stayed out of the IG mess, so why am I being bothered with this garbage? Can anyone tell me how to use the filter on Eudoralite? I guess that's the only defense. Laurie Alice Eakes; The Widow's Secret http://www.theromanceclub.com/ authors/lauriealiceeakes/default.htm ----- ----- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:49:14 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: None Would just like to make it clear to everyone that I am not speaking to or in anyway communicating with Ian G. Who runs that tux.org archive? David who? Can someone please supply me with his email address. Sylvia ----- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:04:07 +0100 From: "SMorris" Subject: Re: None This address is not speaking to him either. S. ----- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:11:56 +0100 From: "S'mythstic" Subject: Re: 99 Music? > > Mm, well, I'd vote for two contenders as best of 99: > > - Kate Rusby - 'Sleepless'.....What a voice..... > Haven't got her album. But yes she does have a nice voice and some good songs. I'm afraid I'm going to have to sign off ASML. I do this more in sadness than in anger. I'm afraid this campaign waged against me has been much too personal and devastating. "unsubscribe al-stewart" or whatever it is one does. I really haven't the energy to complain either to my ISP or to his. If I may mention his name, the person who has considerably aggravated an already difficult situation is Ian Gomeche. Sylvia ----- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:49:52 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: ASML I'm told that it's not so difficult to set up a private mailing list of your own. The question though is how to finance it? I understand that Muffy Barkocy owns this one and pays not only for the storage of the information, but also for the permanent net connection required to keep churning the stuff out. This is a substantial financial investment and persons making such an investment are entitled to run their 'list' in whatever way they see fit. Anyone who might be interested in participating in such a venture could perhaps contact me, privately. However a certain person called you know who would not be welcome to contact me. He and his sponsors are to be excluded at all costs. His initials are IG in case anyone is in any doubt to whom I am referring. Initially I would prefer that only people who have actually met me make contact. Other people are not excluded. It's just a little difficult at the moment operating in this environment of IG engendered paranoia (and email overload). For example I have been trying to contact Ray Miller and have had several mails returned as undeliverable. People seem to be changing email addresses at the drop of a hat and it is so difficult to know exactly who is who. If people who have met Phil or I could refer as obliquely as possible to a private conversation, (or even what food we ate and where,) that might serve as an identifier. I have given my phone number to people that I trust and anyone else need not bother ringing. (Except Kim of course. Does she have it Neville?) Please remember that Phil is ill and show a little consideration. Thanks for your support. Sylvia Morris ---- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:22:22 -0700 From: "Blake Hodgetts" Subject: Re: 99 Music? Sylvia ("S'mythstic") posted: >I'm afraid I'm going to have to sign off ASML. I do >this more in sadness than in anger. I'm afraid this >campaign waged against me has been much too >personal and devastating. >... >I really haven't the energy to complain either to my >ISP or to his. If I may mention his name, the person >who has considerably aggravated an already difficult >situation is I__ G______. Does anyone know what this is all about? I haven't seen any attacks on Sylvia -on- the list, so I don't understand how unsub- scribing would help. If someone is harrassing Sylvia off-list, I wish he would stop. However, unsubscribing won't have any effect on off-list activity. What's going on? I can't even tell if this is an appropriate moment to plead with someone not to go. Very confused, - --blake ----- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:08:40 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Very final warning - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Sylvia Morris, 72132,3214 TO: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@ikg.co.uk DATE: 30/09/99 00:19 RE: Copy of: Very final warning I do not wish to hear from you again. If I do I will contact the police. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:21:52 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Can anyone help? As I see it I only have two options: 1. I either terminate all of my internet access. 2. Or I get the police and the ''law" involved in this. I think this has got to the stage where I need to have conversations with people in front of witnesses and/or or sponsors. Any idea how I can do this? I think I will in future copy everything I send to a selected third party. Would other people do the same if they think it is a good idea? Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:33:41 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Can't say I'm very impressed with this so far What is that quote? Something about evil surviving because good people stand by and do nothing? This "abuse" has made me and other people ill. I can prove it. We are talking "mental cruelty" or "actual bodily harm" here. So what do I do about it? Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:43:26 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: I'm starting to remember a few things I misquoted something I think. What was actually said on Hignfy was something like this. What would cost a million? Al's divorce from "the cat". Who is the cat? At what point did things start to go wrong last year? Think about it people please. This could well affect all of us Al fans. There are some very bad vibes going around. Where are they coming from? And when did it start? Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:12:13 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: What constitutes a flame, I wonder? Telling some people to 'go away' very politely apparently can be interpreted as flaming. None of you have actually seen my "blow torch" yet. Stand by .... it could happen! Its kinda hot and smoky in this ante room to hell, but when Kim the Eskimo gets here.... We'll all chill out a bit, hopefully, with a little bit of luck. ....and 'watch da cricket?' Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:32:03 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Can anyone help? Any ideas anyone? Who shall I be? Helen? Cassandra? Gypsy? Rose? I never was really Sylvia anyway. My friends always called me something else and usually! got away with it! Sylvia - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Carl Friedrich, INTERNET:friedrich@mindspring.com TO: Sylvia Morris, 72132,3214 DATE: 30/09/99 01:16 RE: Re: Can anyone help? Sender: friedrich@mindspring.com Received: from smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (smtp7.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.128.51]) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id BAA24325 for <72132.3214@compuserve.com>; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mindspring.com (user-2ivf00s.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.128.28]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15287 for <72132.3214@compuserve.com>; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37F2F39E.D878FBBF@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:22:38 -0400 From: Carl Friedrich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Can anyone help? References: <199909300024_MC2-86E4-2FD7@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have seen this type of situation before on IRC (internet relay chat). It's usually handled by the victim (i.e., you, if you don't mind me using that term :-) ) changing their ISP (internet service provider, i.e. change from compuserve to aol or mindspring, etc.), and of course their email address. After this is done, you inform all those you know and trust of your new email. Come back onto the ASML after a bit, under a new name. If anyone (namely whoever you are trying to avoid [I won't mention any names]) recognizes you for who you are and starts flaming or threatening again, just deny it : "I haven't a CLUE what you're talking about! Who's Sylvia? Never heard of her." Also if this happens, then is the time to document and mail copies to an outside party. Usually the denial tends to work (so I've heard), if you deny it enough and don't back down from denying it (after all, it just -is- remotely possible you could be someone else who just -sounds- like Sylvia Morris). Well, that's alot of trouble, I know, but it's probably the only way to end it once and for all. Good luck to you, Sylvia! I'll return to stealth mode now... I have - -tons- of work to do. Seems it will never end. Carl (friedrich@mindspring.com) Sylvia Morris wrote: > As I see it I only have two options: > > 1. I either terminate all of my internet access. > > 2. Or I get the police and the ''law" involved in this. > > I think this has got to the stage where I need to have > conversations with people in front of witnesses and/or > or sponsors. > > Any idea how I can do this? > > I think I will in future copy everything I send to a selected > third party. Would other people do the same if they think > it is a good idea? > > Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:13:57 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Bad vibes? Hope you don't mind me forwarding this Mark. I need some assistance with the legalities. Perhaps someone knows someone? Sylvia Morris - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "Mark J. Moerman", INTERNET:podglaze@hotmail.com TO: Sylvia Morris, 72132,3214 DATE: 30/09/99 01:48 RE: Re: Bad vibes? Sender: podglaze@hotmail.com Received: from hotmail.com (f12.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.12]) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with SMTP id BAA27885 for <72132.3214@compuserve.com>; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 37477 invoked by uid 0); 30 Sep 1999 05:48:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990930054815.37476.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.214.211.56 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:48:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.214.211.56] From: "Mark J. Moerman" To: 72132.3214@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Bad vibes? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:48:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Fortunately, the only shows I've been to have had overwhelmingly good vibes, such as the two 1999 shows I've been lucky enough to attend. I don't know how such things are viewed under British law, but here in the US, I think you'd definitely have a case for harrassment. Whether or not police would get involved is open to question; I suspect one might to resort to civil suits, but over here, the deck is stacked against anyone whose actions could conceivably be considered harrassment, particularly if it's a man against a woman. I think yo have the take the lead, as the injured party, but there should certainly be plenty of people who can vouch for the mean-spirited, vindictive, insulting nature of the posts he's been sending out to his private little cc: mailing list, and just how malicious he's been getting. I would doubt, however, that anyone outside of Britain would be of any use to you in a British legal or civil action. But don't sever your internet conenctions...that would be letting him win. Mark >From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> >To: "al-stewart@things.org" >Subject: Bad vibes? >Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:56:16 -0400 > >Sometimes I have the feeling that some very "bad >vibes" are present at some of Al's shows. > >For some reason some are happy shows others >are sad shows. > >Any comments? > >Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:12:43 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Samuel, oh how you've changed? First things first. Ian Gomeche, if you haven't stopped by now, please stop now. As in If I get any further email from you after 2pm BST today, I _will_ report you to the police. If you stop now I will _not_ report you to the police. That is the best offer you are going to get. - --------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------- Samuel is allegedly based on Beckett. It always makes me think of the two tramps and their divertissements. Put 'Waiting for Godot' into www.google.com. I wonder if they've ever been asked that before? What do you think Swiss Mariann? Or do you not have the album? It also has Teddy Bear 'associations'. Ostragon and Vladimir I think they were called? Haven't got the book but saw the play. Birmingham Rep early 70's???? Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:30:14 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Your Mail - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Claranet abuse, INTERNET:abuse@clara.net TO: Sylvia Morris, 72132,3214 DATE: 30/09/99 08:23 RE: Re: Your Mail Sender: www@clara.net Received: from thanatos.clara.net (thanatos.clara.net [195.8.69.60]) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id IAA15953 for <72132.3214@compuserve.com>; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www by thanatos.clara.net with local (Exim 2.12 #8) id 11WfF5-000DTy-00 for 72132.3214@compuserve.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:23:23 +0100 From: Claranet abuse To: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Your Mail Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:23:22 BST X-Mailer: Atlantis Vulcan v0.9 Message-Id: Sender: WWW-server Dear Persons, This matter is currently being investigated. Thank you for your mail. Abuse Team ClaraNET Support - ------------------------------------------------------------- ClaraNET Abuse Team: ClaraNET Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.clara.net/aup.html - ------------------------------------------------------------- > This person has been sending me abusive email for > several weeks. > > I enclose a sample letter in mail to follow. > ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:49:50 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Stop sending mail It is now 2pm by my computer. This will be my last message on the Ian Gomeche and Clarra subject. From yer marra ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:07:13 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: I still seem to be getting mail from our friend Must check the timings of course. ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:09:38 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: letter from clara abuse dept and my reply No comment Sylvia - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@ikg.co.uk DATE: 30/09/99 09:59 RE: letter from clara abuse dept and my reply Sender: igomeche@ikg.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id JAA09684; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.89.130] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Wgjj-000Kvv-00; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:59:07 +0100 Message-ID: <007e01bf0b4b$e834f260$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: Subject: letter from clara abuse dept and my reply Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:58:24 +0100 Organization: ikg associates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > > > > Dear Ian, > > > > I have notified the rest of Backline here about your current situation, > > there should be no further problems with your account providing you stick > to > > the action we agreed is appropriate. > > > > Regards > > > > David Dundon > > Backline Support > > support@clara.net > > ezd@clara.net > > thank for your message > i will follow your instructions to the letter > i will not and have not since she asked late last night contact that crazy > woman again. > as you asked i will keep everything she is sending me (4 so far since last > night) > > regards > > ian gomeche > > ikg associates > > > > > ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:14:10 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: I believe you Ian but there are rather a lot of people that won't No comment. ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:50:11 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: End of conversation Somehow it doesn't seem that way. " Ian" is a liar. It can be proved. I'm afraid I can't "diagnose" his problem. But I haven't written to him since approx 13:45 and I don't intend to. Muffy and Co. were quite right to "Bin" him. I intend to follow the same course of action. I am led to believe that he is also victimising Ray Millar. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:46:33 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: Re: 99 Music? Repost I sent this last night, but it appears to have not gone through... JSR - - Blake Hodgetts wrote: > If someone is harrassing Sylvia off-list, > I wish he would stop. However, unsubscribing > won't have any effect on off-list activity. > > What's going on? > I can't even tell if this is an appropriate > moment to plead with someone not to go. > > Very confused, > > --blake Speaking for myself, I can say that I've received several "private" (non-list) messages from Ian in recent days. I can't say whether or not they were of the harrasment variety, because I've been deleting them unread - I can't imagine that he has anything to say that I have any interest in hearing, and if I read them I might get PO'd and respond, which would just encourage him. I thought about emailing his ISP and complaining about receiving harassing emails after I explicitly asked him not to contact me, then I noticed that his email address is IKG something.something, which I assume is his own private domain, so he doesn't really have an ISP to complain to. Sylvia, I suggest that you take the same approach and go ahead and stay on list. Just ignore the little shithead and he'll go away... (pardon the profanity, but sometimes it *IS* appropriate...) JSR As to this week's songs, sorry to disagree with some previous posters, but... "Peter on the White sea" is probably the worst piece of dreck that Al has put out in his modern era. Absolutely unlistenable, but easy enough to skip over on an otherwise exceptional album. In my opinion, of course. (and I'm willing to bet that it is Ian's favorite song...) ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:49:36 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: To: Al Stewart Are you sure that your 'management' is working for you? Who is Chapman anyway? Was he even a good drummer? I don't remember him. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:52:27 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: UK Tour Don't expect to see Phil or I at any of Al's shows. Stay away Al. You prefer LA don't you? Cancel the tour. The signs are not right. Not impressed. Sylvia....(Mary) ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:56:42 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Cancel UK Tour....please I've just sent this message to ASML. It has been returned. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:10:36 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: We will not attend any of the 1999 shows And are throwing our 'black shirts' in the bin. However did you allow your name to be attached to this shambles? Al? You are worth much better than this. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:19:32 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: How to cure anyone of liking Al Stewart's music? It's easy....like taking candy from a baby. And, no, I won't sell my valuable LPs for stupid prices on Ebay. I'll ceremonially break them with a hammer in memory of the ASML. May all of you roast in hell. But it seems like many of you have been there for some time. Sorry Al Stewart, this is nothing to do with you. I wish you and yours well. Very nice of you to talk to us at various times at such length. You are nice Al....not like these sad people. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:49:46 -0600 From: scottmaxwell@wwdb.org Subject: Re: We will not attend any of the 1999 shows Sylvia Morris wrote: > > And are throwing our 'black shirts' in the bin. > However did you allow your name to be attached > to this shambles? Al? > You are worth much better than this. Did I miss something? Why this pleading with Al about cancelling his tour? Or are these posts a form of art, like the sh*t in a bag? ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:01:43 EDT From: NayaMa@aol.com Subject: Re: We will not attend any of the 1999 shows In a message dated 99-09-30 20:51:08 EDT, scottmaxwell@wwdb.org writes: << Sylvia Morris wrote: > > And are throwing our 'black shirts' in the bin. > However did you allow your name to be attached > to this shambles? Al? > You are worth much better than this. Did I miss something? Why this pleading with Al about cancelling his tour? Or are these posts a form of art, like the sh*t in a bag? >> Apparently Sylvia is blaming the masses for the posts of an individual. I refuse to take sides in the matter, because truth is always somewhere in the middle and no matter where you stand, you;'re not in the same middle as the truth. Robyn ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:13:47 -0700 From: Laura.G@141.com (Laura Gharazeddine) Subject: Re: How to cure anyone of liking Al Stewart's music? > May all of you roast in hell. Well, thank you very bloody much! I think that's very mean and rude thing to wish on people-especially people you don't even know. I read all these silly postings, tongue in cheek most of the times and delete-but now I am really very hurt and angry. The nerve! What ARE you on? (NOt because I want any, I want to avoid it-apparently it makes people silly and mean!) Laura G. ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:59:10 -0400 From: Everett Dague Subject: A tad confused OK, I'm not at all clear here. Are Sylvia and Ian the same person? Do they share the same pharmacist? I suppose Sylvia has signed of the list, but can anyone (backchannel, please) enlighten me as to what just happened? Everett and Wilma Dague ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:14:43 -0400 From: "L. Davis" Subject: Re: A tad confused Everett Dague wrote: > >but can anyone (backchannel, please) enlighten me as to what just > happened? I second that, and it seems to me, on-list would be the right place to do it, to spare a lot of mighty confused people asking the same question. KIM???? One ought to be able to explain in a neutral diplomatic way -- possibly? Lisa Davis ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:32:15 -0700 (PDT) From: markjm@pacbell.net (Mark J. Moerman) Subject: Re: Fw: For Your Eyes Only (Re: a mark moron writes) My message began with... >> These comments are intended for you only. This message is not to be >> forwarded, copied, or otherwise conveyed to any other individual, mailing >> list, etc. And yours began with... >.this has just been sent to over 100 people. I fully expected you to do that. You have just proven, beyond any and all doubt, that you have a reckless disregard for anyone other than yourself, and that you are totally incapable of being trusted in any way, shape, or form. > >you have just been removed from my list. THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!! >as far as i know i had done nothing to deserve all this. Then you are even more of a sad, pathetic loser than I had previously thought. Mark *********************************************************************** * MARK J. MOERMAN "Ya de buckety * * markjm@pacbell.net Rum ding fadoo * * http://home.pacbell.net/markjm Ni! Ni! Ni! * * Yow!" * * Ongelofelijk! -Monty Python * *********************************************************************** ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:43:29 -0600 (MDT) From: "Christopher M. Conway" Subject: I** G****** redux Please, Sylvia, calm down. Getting frantic and spewing hundreds of messages to the list won't fix things. I know that a lot of you, like me, have been getting crap from Ian for the last month. I have just fired off an email to his ISP (and that of another account of his, though I suspect that root/postmaster there is him) to request action. I've included it below, in case you're interested. If I don't get action from them within a week, I'll be contacting *THEIR* provider, and some high level admins I know in the UK to stop this crap. Please stop sending crap to the list about this bozo. Here's the email I sent: A user on your systems, Ian Gomeche (known variously as igomeche@ifb.co.uk, igomeche@ikg.co.uk, and igomeche@clara.co.uk) has been harassing and spamming a very large number of people. Approximately one month ago, he was thrown off a mailing list for good cause by the owner of the list. He queried the system that hosted the list for the subscriber list, and has continued emailing us in bulk since then. I had originally simply killfiled him, but when I got a whiff of what was going on, I redirected email from him to a separate folder. From 7 September to 1 October, he has sent me *220* email messages. The folder is nearly one *MEGABYTE* in size, just from email from him. He is sending this crap to dozens, and possibly hundreds (since he learned how to hide the To: list) of other people who DO NOT WANT EMAIL FROM HIM. Please restrain this user, or terminate their account. We do not want mail from him. We did not ask to be on his list. Simply having him terminate sending mail to me is *NOT* sufficient. NO ONE on his list asked to be there. He must be required to CEASE and DESIST from mailing *ANYONE* whose address he got off the Al Stewart mailing list, either through harvesting addresses of posters, or through taking advantage of a convenience feature for members. I will expect response from you concerning this shortly. Thank you for your attention. Christopher M. Conway Systems and Network Administrator ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:56:31 EDT From: NayaMa@aol.com Subject: Re: I** G****** redux In a message dated 99-10-01 00:48:13 EDT, wombat@prickly-wombat.com writes: << From 7 September to 1 October, he has sent me *220* email messages. The folder is nearly one *MEGABYTE* in size, just from email from him. He is sending this crap to dozens, and possibly hundreds (since he learned how to hide the To: list) of other people who DO NOT WANT EMAIL FROM HIM. Please restrain this user, or terminate their account. We do not want mail from him. We did not ask to be on his list. >> Uh....I didn't ask to be on his mailing list either but I certainly don't appreciate being lumped in with your "we" thing, there. I think he's funny, when I understand him, and he's been friendly and open with me as well. If you want to take some kind of action, that is your prerogative, but please don't presume to speak for me. Thank you. Robyn ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:18:42 -0700 From: Laura.G@141.com (Laura Gharazeddine) Subject: Re: I** G****** redux > Uh....I didn't ask to be on his mailing list either but I certainly don't > appreciate being lumped in with your "we" thing, there. I think he's funny, > when I understand him, and he's been friendly and open with me as well. > If you want to take some kind of action, that is your prerogative, but please > don't presume to speak for me. > Thank you. > Robyn Thank you Robyn. I second that! Laura G. ----- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:25:31 -0700 From: Ann or Gregg Dunphy Subject: Re: I** G****** redux Mr. Conway: Laura Gharazeddine wrote: > > > Uh....I didn't ask to be on his mailing list either but I certainly don't > > appreciate being lumped in with your "we" thing, there. I think he's > funny, > > when I understand him, and he's been friendly and open with me as well. > > If you want to take some kind of action, that is your prerogative, but > please > > don't presume to speak for me. > > Thank you. > > Robyn > > Thank you Robyn. I second that! > > Laura G. Anything I have to say to anyone or their ISP I will say for myself. Kindly do not presume to speak for me. Gregg ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:29:05 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Fw: two idiots wrote(seulement deux?) Et adieu mon 'ami' et 'up yours!' comme on dit en Angleterre. Sylvie - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@ikg.co.uk DATE: 30/09/99 23:22 RE: Fw: two idiots wrote Sender: igomeche@ikg.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id XAA02616; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.86.254] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11WtGz-000OJ0-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 04:22:17 +0100 Message-ID: <004901bf0bbc$17633cc0$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: Subject: Fw: two idiots wrote Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 04:21:29 +0100 Organization: ikg associates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > OK, I'm not at all clear here. Are Sylvia and Ian the same person? Do they > share the same pharmacist? I suppose Sylvia has signed of the list, but can > anyone (backchannel, please) enlighten me as to what just happened? > > Everett and Wilma Dague > > > > I second that, and it seems to me, on-list would be the right place to > do it, to spare a lot of mighty confused people asking the same > question. KIM???? One ought to be able to explain in a neutral > diplomatic way -- possibly? > > > Lisa Davis > > > v > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > no we are not the same person. > > no we do not share the same phamacist (not my problem if you cant understand > my british sense of humour) > > she just self destructed in a fairly spectacular and meladromatic way (bit > like all her leaving speeches) > > her case to my isp and police has just collaped as she sent me a private > post telling me to 'rot in hell' even though the thing is 'sub judice' and > we are not supposed to communicate with one another. i haven't communicated > with her at all since she asked me not to.she has sent me 6 things > > in contrast bill has unsubscribed in a quiet manner with no histrionics. he > couldn't cope with her nonsense any more. > > he has asked however to stay on MY list. > > > ian (god there are some naieve people about) > > this has just been copied to over 100 people > > ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:35:20 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Que faire les enfants???Fw: For Your Eyes Only (Re: a mark moron writes) Quod erat demonstrandum.....je crois. - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@clara.co.uk TO: (unknown), INTERNET:markjm@pacbell.net DATE: 30/09/99 22:41 RE: Fw: For Your Eyes Only (Re: a mark moron writes) Sender: igomeche@clara.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id WAA18289; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.86.254] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11WscM-000Nl2-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 03:40:19 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01bf0bb6$3a156fa0$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: Subject: Fw: For Your Eyes Only (Re: a mark moron writes) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 03:39:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark J. Moerman To: ian gomeche Sent: 01 October 1999 02:51 Subject: For Your Eyes Only (Re: a moron writes) > These comments are intended for you only. This message is not to be > forwarded, copied, or otherwise conveyed to any other individual, mailing > list, etc. > > Listen, you twit, I was actually trying to dissuade her from doing anything. > I couched it in supporting terms, for I felt that that was most likely to > get through to her. I was pointing out to her that it was pointless to go to > the police and that her only real option would be to try a civil action, > which on either side of the pond requires rather entertaining sums of cash > up front before a lawyer will take the case. I was also very directly > pointing out to her that any such business was an entirely British matter, > and that it was no good her asking anyone from the US or elsewhere for help. > > I've always given you the benefit of the doubt, which is why I didn't ask to > be removed from your cc: list, and I'll admit that I do find a certain > entertainment value in some of your rather odd ramblings. However, I'll > stand by my comments that you have been mean-spirited and insulting to her. > You can claim that you're not communicating with her, but you can hardly > make a reasonable claim that your remarks are private! You're sending them > out to 60 or 70 people (or however many), and you can't reasonably claim > that you're not fully aware that anything you say about someone will get > passed to that person. You get ASML posts passed along to you, so you are > obviously aware that this sort of thing is going on. > > However, I also do believe that she has gone overboard and is seriously > overreacting, and her posts are getting rather more strange, which is why I > stepped in. I thought that perhaps a supporting voice trying to push her > back onboard might do some good. I seem to have been mistaken in that > assessment; more fool me. > > I don't intend to take sides. What I want is for both you and she to just > shut the hell up so that I don't have to spend any more time reading or > thinking about any of this. > > >mark moron wrote: > That's the joke people made about my name when I was 7 years old! Surely you > can do better than that. > > I reiterate that these comments are intended for you only. This message is > not to be forwarded, copied, or otherwise conveyed to any other individual, > mailing list, etc. > > Mark > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------- i do not take orders who i send stuff to .this has just been sent to over 100 people. you have just been removed from my list. i didn't realise you were still on it. there are a lot of creeps on asml. you are one of them. i see nothing in you PUBLIC post to morris discouraging her. quite the contrary. this para encouraged her to play the poor defenceless woman being hassled by the nasty male preditor number to my isp: ; 'I suspect one might to resort to civil suits, but over here, the deck is stacked against anyone whose actions could conceivably be considered harrassment, particularly if it's a man against a woman' my isp had 4 staff working on morrises complaints this afternoon. i lost my account for about an hour because some junior there suspended my account. it was only because i screamed at them that i got it back so quickly. god knows what she has said the police. you lot just sat and watched her going more and more OTT all day but no one minded too much because it was only me she was attacking and i'm still considered fair game she did some pretty shitty things to me like accuse me of ';bombarding' her with stuff when we had been having a 2 way conversation. she tried to interest muffy in my private posts. she sent stuff to scott young which resulted in 2 vicious flames as far as i know i had done nothing to deserve all this. etc.. you have said some pretty nasty things about me on list people like you make me want to vomit. yakade do da or whatever your stupid sig says ian ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:40:24 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Gordon was the moron! a mark moron wrote again caesar aderat forte Brutus had some jam - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@ikg.co.uk TO: "Mark J. Moerman", INTERNET:markjm@pacbell.net DATE: 30/09/99 23:41 RE: a mark moron wrote again Sender: igomeche@ikg.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id XAA26509; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.86.254] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11WtYt-000OWs-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 04:40:47 +0100 Message-ID: <005101bf0bbe$ad05e640$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: "Mark J. Moerman" References: <199910010332.UAA21103@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> Subject: a mark moron wrote again Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 04:39:55 +0100 Organization: ikg associates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 a mark moron wrote: > and that you are totally incapable of being trusted in any way, shape, or form. > and various other squit well you don't seem in the slightest bit concerned that you 'sexual harrassment' suggestions ON LIST to sylvia could have had very serious implications for me indeed had i not been able to spend some ill aforded time to clarify the situation with my ISP i still may have the police to contend with.some them can pre-judge a situation )they are human you know and see me as a sexual preditor harrassing poor feeble defenceless women (what is her wimp of a husband doing in all this) now bugger off ian ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:14:22 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Fw: Email Abuse Abuse of email I think don't you Clara.co.uk? - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@clara.co.uk DATE: 01/10/99 05:50 RE: Fw: Email Abuse Sender: igomeche@clara.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id FAA07871; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 05:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.89.139] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11WzIt-000877-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:48:40 +0100 Message-ID: <00a301bf0bf2$10f2c500$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: Subject: Fw: Email Abuse Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:47:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Iain Noble Sent: 01 October 1999 10:46 Subject: Re: Email Abuse > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Iain Noble > To: > Sent: 01 October 1999 10:28 > Subject: Email Abuse > > > > As a SysOp in the Email & Communications Forum of Compuserve I have > > received a complaint from a Compuserve member Sylvia Morris that you are > > harassing her with unsolicited email messages. Please stop this or you > > will be reported to your ISP and your mail account will be suspended. > > > > Rgds, > > > > Iain Noble > > please speak to the abuse section of clara. this is not true. we both > (myself and ms. morris )asked each other on wed night this week to stop > sending mail. i have complied .she has not. i have received at least 6 from > her which i will be sending to clara so that they can complain to compuserve > and freeserve (her other account) > on my behalf. > > regards > > ian gomeche > > ikg associates > > please phone me on ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:12:19 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Fw: Email Abuse howzat! - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@clara.co.uk DATE: 01/10/99 05:50 RE: Fw: Email Abuse Sender: igomeche@clara.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id FAA07871; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 05:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.89.139] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11WzIt-000877-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:48:40 +0100 Message-ID: <00a301bf0bf2$10f2c500$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: Subject: Fw: Email Abuse Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:47:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 - ----- Original Message ----- From: ian gomeche To: Iain Noble Sent: 01 October 1999 10:46 Subject: Re: Email Abuse > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Iain Noble > To: > Sent: 01 October 1999 10:28 > Subject: Email Abuse > > > > As a SysOp in the Email & Communications Forum of Compuserve I have > > received a complaint from a Compuserve member Sylvia Morris that you are > > harassing her with unsolicited email messages. Please stop this or you > > will be reported to your ISP and your mail account will be suspended. > > > > Rgds, > > > > Iain Noble > > please speak to the abuse section of clara. this is not true. we both > (myself and ms. morris )asked each other on wed night this week to stop > sending mail. i have complied .she has not. i have received at least 6 from > her which i will be sending to clara so that they can complain to compuserve > and freeserve (her other account) > on my behalf. > > regards > > ian gomeche > > ikg associates > > please phone me on ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:17:51 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: a loony writes! Shall we play let's spot the real loony? Because it sure as hell isn't me. Sylvia Morris - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "ian gomeche", INTERNET:igomeche@ikg.co.uk DATE: 01/10/99 04:58 RE: a loony writes! Sender: igomeche@ikg.co.uk Received: from oracle.clara.net (oracle.clara.net [195.8.69.94]) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) with ESMTP id EAA20846; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 04:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [195.8.89.139] (helo=memphis) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11WyW1-0005oP-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:58:09 +0100 Message-ID: <006b01bf0beb$026bc2e0$03000004@memphis> From: "ian gomeche" To: Subject: a loony writes! Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:57:20 +0100 Organization: ikg associates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > THere she goes again...I wish someone would get her some help! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> > To: > Cc: Richard B. Emerson ; Kimbis > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 11:23 PM > Subject: Traduction > > > > On me dit qu'on peut voyager un 'furlong way > > in a fortnight'. > > > > Qu'est-ce qu'on dit a la tele en EU et en Europe > > au sujet des evenements au Japon? > > > > Il me semble qu'ils ont besoin du secours. > > > > Je me souviens de Chernobyl. > > > > Sylvie > > > > "17 ans.....17 ans....17 ans....mon enfant". G. Moustaki ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:06:37 -0400 From: Everett Dague Subject: [none] While all this Ian vs. Sylvia stuff is very nice and melodramatic, would it be possible to drop it? Everett and Wilma Dague ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:43:32 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Happy exee not the virus I think our resident ASML expert may have discovered the problem. Ian is probably subbed to ASML from a secret address. He will therefore be receiving mail from me when I send mail to the list. Mailing lists 101 is it? Did I pass? ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:58:31 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: I will of course be contacting a solicitor I have 2 meg of mail from this idiot. I had to buy another hard disk. Sylvia Morris ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:53:12 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Does Steve Chapman get to see mail from ASML? Mr Chapman Does this disaster not prove that this mailing list should be moderated? You can't go away and leave the robots in charge for too long. Because they have no idea what they are doing. Depends on whom they are programmed by of course. Mail servers called "thanatos"?. Ancient Greek for death I think? Sylvia Morris ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:41:32 -0700 From: "Blake Hodgetts" Subject: Re: 99 Music? Judging from the replies I've gotten, a lot of people are still getting mail from him. He stopped writing to me and Jane when we asked him to nicely. I don't know why he persists in writing to some people -- perhaps they somehow got on his bad side. Apparently what he's writing to Sylvia is quite vicious. I'm sorry to hear that this is still going on. However, at this point I'm not sure that posting about it to the list is productive; it's a bit disruptive. My sympathy is with Sylvia; I hope she can succeed in getting this resolved. - --blake Imp y Celyn on 09/30/99 09:30:55 PM Please respond to imp@unseen-university.cix.co.uk To: Blake Hodgetts/Eugene/Oregon/SYMANTEC@SYMANTEC cc: al-stewart@things.org Subject: Re: 99 Music? In article <882567FB.006FB5EC.00@uscu-smtp01.symantec.com>, Blake Hodgetts wrote: > Does anyone know what this is all about? > I haven't seen any attacks on Sylvia -on- > the list, so I don't understand how unsub- > scribing would help. After IG left the list, I kept getting a load of rambling gibberish from him. I mailed him back asking him to stop - he did. I assume Sylvia is still "benefitting" from his prose. ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:51:35 -0400 From: Subject: stop the nonesense folks i believe what is happening is that our friend ian is cleverly including the asml address in the "reply to" field of his private emails to people like sylvia and others. thus when she foolishly replies to his bait, it gets sent to and ends up posted on the list. everyone please exercise caution when hitting that "reply" key. check the addresses. or better yet, send your reply as a new email, implicitly typing the adresses. thanks, max ----- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:42:26 +0100 From: "Ray Miller" Subject: Re: Does Steve Chapman get to see mail from ASML? > Mail servers called "thanatos"?. Ancient Greek for > death I think? I think this is Clara rather subtle idea of a joke. In fact their mail server is surprisingly resilient. Now if thanatos were their NEWS server it would be rather more fitting. If it were called roadstomoscow.clara.net it would be rather more in keeping. Ray ----- Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:52:12 PDT From: "stephen shea" Subject: IAN G IS A DUM ASS ian----- stop acting like a dumb-ass .I'm getting pissed off at seeing your non-sense on the Al Stewart Mailing List. Steve Shea ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:55:56 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: {No Al} Alternative music / viewpoint? Ladies and Gentlemen!! I don't know whether people realise but Ian G. has been threatening this list with an "expose" in Mojo. A few of us are now getting together to submit an alternative summary to Mojo. Anyone feel like sending contributions to things.org? Anonymous will do if necessary. But keep it succinct as in short. 50 - 100 words please. Sylvia ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:59:19 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Twenty private messages Time for a time-out don't you think? Sylviaa ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:00:21 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Thanks Thanks for welcome. ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:39:40 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Gosh !!!! I'm gobsmacked....'ian' is still on tux.org And he's threatening to ring you Muffy, or at least that was my interpretation of the post I've just seen on tux. I have contacted various people about this and I get the impression that overall he's not what you would call ...er...extremely popular in the UK. Turned out he was a sex therapist! (not!) I was always told at university that one must not assume, because to ass-u-me makes an ass out of u and me. Sylvia ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:23:31 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Song comments No private mail from Gomeche today. Must be a record! Pandora....never liked her and her box of tricks (as it were.). Peter....great song....can see the boat shipwrecked sometimes. PWW2b...Clever lyrics....a little bit too "beatnicky" for me. Sylvia ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 15:57:47 EDT From: NayaMa@aol.com Subject: Get off your high horse To the individual who privately emailed me to try and censor me, I have blocked your addy. I do not appreciate being told what to do or say, and that is exactly what you attempted, and that is called censorship. You do not own this list, you did not draw up the rules of behavior/content for the list, and you truly had no business whatsoever trying to tell me how to act and post. If you have a complaint about the way I post or what I post about, feel free to talk to somebody who cares, such as the list owner. Do not talk to me about it. Your attempts to anger through insult fell on deaf ears. I hear that trash all the time from people who have no power and no authority, but lots of anger that needs an outlet. I refuse to be dragged into your dance of anger, go take it out on somebody else, okay? I realize that this anger is from a sense of helplessness, I see it in patients all the time who led relatively healthy lifestyles and suddenly found themselves dealing with liver disease or kidney failure or some such, totally out of their control. It's partly fear because you don't know what to do to resolve the situation, and from there it escalates into anger because you are used to having your way about most things in your life. You're used to having the answers for everyone else, now you have none for yourself. That attitude just isn't going to work with me. I've been around too, too many people like that, for it to affect me in such a way that you end up getting what you want from me. Like I said before, I am not a lemming. Nobody speaks for me. Calling me stupid doesn't make it so. Just like calling yourself an expert in "netiquette" doesn't make it so. Deal with it. Sincerely, Robyn ----- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 99 20:36:04 -0400 From: Bob Lawler Subject: Re: Gosh !!!! I'm gobsmacked....'ian' is still on tux.org Okay, even I have had enough of this. The Ian thing is long over as far as I am concerned. I was not involved in the original madness, and when I started getting posts from Ian, I asked him politely to stop sending me private messages. It took a few days, but he complied. Now I am bombarded daily with Sylvia Morris posts. I really don't want to hear any more about it. Sure, I just don't have to open the messages. And that is exactly what I do. I ignore everything I get from Sylvia. But this is getting old. Take a hint Sylvia, if you want to prolong this personal feud with Ian, do it at your own leisure and spare the rest of the list a blow by blow account. Dr. Bob ----- Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 02:29:04 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Test message Mail delivery systems is 'about' again. IG is quiet. All is well for now. Sylvia ----- Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:55:55 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: No messages? (Try TP) "It was early October A bright shiny day. I turned on the 'media' What did it say? I looked in my inbox A-tune started to play. I'd heard it somewhere But what -did- it say?" It said 'No messages!' So much better than the other days Thank you for 'No messages!' Think I'll buy a ticket for that last train out today." Dreaming of course....too many commitments but I thought a bit of verse might help. Sylvia ----- Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:18:38 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Such a nice quiet day Thanks for all the help....and apologies for any offence. Not intentional I do assure you. [However does one convey truth or sincerity via this medium?] All I can say is that, yes, if things work out okay, we will see at least one of Al's shows. Not sure where yet but in UK ....not abroad. Phil and I look forward to seeing our friends there. Thanks Sylvia ----- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:56:59 +0200 From: "carlitos" Subject: RV: Al Steware list removed >The Al Stewart mailing list (e.g., Hypermail archive) has been removed >from tux.org. > >- Andrew Witt >Mailing list Administrator, >Tux.org What does this mean? ----- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:08:02 +0200 From: "carlitos" Subject: IG/SM matter Ian: I think I've always treated you politely.I even told you I was sorry about all the matter which ended with you expulsion from the list, and I posted a message to the list telling it so, at your request. I thought, and still think, that you could have been a useful member of the list, had you limit yourself to talk about your Al experiences, or any other matter, provided you weren't insulting or despising other members. But I can't understand what you're trying with that private war against someone who I ( and many other ASMLers, I believe) love and respect. Please stop that. Me, at least, don't want to be on your list, I never asked to be there and I don't want to keep receiving 40 messages a day about how much you hate Sylvia (la Morris, as you call her). If you want to post to me privately, specially about your Al experiences in the early 70's feel free to do it. Regards Carlos ----- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:01:14 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Whatever As the disclaimers get longer may I point out that mail sent by me to al-stewart@things.org is sent to the ? hundred people on the ASML and not to any individual living, dead, or on another planet [yawn]. Could put it in a .sig file I suppose. How boring does this have to get? Sylvia ----- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:01:15 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (No Al) Guiliani....[subtext misunderstandings etc] Believe it or not, I only read that mail because I have an album of flute/piccolo/oboe/guitar music by Mauro Guiliani. [Read the same post but got a completely different message! ] It wasn't an album I liked particularly, but an interesting listen. Sylvia "Mail sent by me to ASML, at any of its addresses, is not to be interpreted as sent to any one person or group of persons." ----- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:55:15 +0100 (BST) From: sylviam@lineone.net Subject: Re: Al Stewart Mailing List Digest V3 #1360 Muffy Problem is password hacking I think. Freeserve? Sylvia M. - ---------- >From: al-stewart@wild.things.org (Al Stewart Mailing List Digest) >To: al-stewart-digest@wild.things.org >Subject: Re: Al Stewart Mailing List Digest V3 #1360 >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:57:28 -0700 (PDT) > > >Al Stewart Mailing List Digest Wednesday, October 13 1999 Volume 03 : Number 1360 > > > >Re: Marion who? >Is this list working? >testing > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:13:58 PDT >From: "Mark J. Moerman" >Subject: Re: Marion who? > >>Anyway, he built this fantastic place (the architect >>was a woman, btw) and had all the important people there-Hollywood, >>politicians-everyone. And Marion was the lady of the house. > >I went on a tour to the Fairport Convention festival three times in the >early 90s, and it also involved numerous other music-oriented activities. >one year, one of these activities was a ceilidh (dance) at a small castle in >Wales, at a point right on the sea overlooking the channel that separate >southern Wales from the southwest tip of England. > >This castle and its grounds, which are now a private college, were once >owned by Mr. Hearst. When we were there, we were given a tour of the place a >female student who happened to be American. One of the things she showed us, >and in fact took great delight in pointing out, was the secret passageway >between Hearst's bedroom and the one used by his mistress. I didn't know who >Marion Davies was at the time, so I don't recall if our guide specifically >mentioned her by name or just generically referred to Randolph's mistress. >The secret passageway had apparently always been there, and Hearst took >advantage of it! > >Mark > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:15:00 -0400 >From: Jolayne White >Subject: Is this list working? > >I posted a new Neville offer to the list a few hours ago, haven't seen >it show up yet. Are we still having problems with the server? I'm still >getting other list mail, so I know I'm still subbed. I'll repost the >offer if it doesn't show up soon. > >Jolayne > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:57:23 -0700 (PDT) >From: Muffy >Subject: testing > > > >------------------------------ ----- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:00:32 -0400 From: scottmaxwell@wwdb.org Subject: Re: Al???? Isn't this how we got introduced to the infamous I.G. ? Crystal Coletti wrote: > > I'm new here, but wondering: Does anyone ever discuss > Al here? > Crystal > > ===== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:59:28 PDT From: "Mark J. Moerman" Subject: Re: Al???? If that particular individual had made his presence known in so polite a manner as Crystal, things would have been very different! Mark > >Isn't this how we got introduced to the infamous I.G. ? > >Crystal Coletti wrote: > > > > I'm new here, but wondering: Does anyone ever discuss > > Al here? > > Crystal > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MARK J. MOERMAN "Ya de buckety! markjm@pacbell.net Rum ding fadoo! podglaze@hotmail.com Ni Ni Ni! Yow!" http://home.pacbell.net/markjm -Monty Python ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Carroll Subject: Re: Al???? On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 scottmaxwell@wwdb.org wrote: > Isn't this how we got introduced to the infamous I.G. ? No, it's a reasonable question to ask, and Crystal asked it politely. Infamous IG did not ask a question, he insultimgly tried to tell us how the list should be run, and went downhill from there. - -- Terry Carroll | Santa Clara, CA | carroll@tjc.com | Modell delendus est | ----- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:36:30 -0700 From: "Kevin K.Tice" Subject: Re: Al(an) (0% Al by weight and volume) Lurk mode off--- When this thread started, the increase in traffic on the list soon got to an IG level. I suspect that it has the same inflammitory potential. However, in what court of law was this -" with Monica was not sexual harrassment. But what Bill did with Paula > *WAS*..." proven? Nobody, except for Bill and Paula know the truth-for others to comment as to what actually occured is pure speculation. Our court system works to provide that what is determined (proven)in a court of law is the functional truth. I don't believe that any of the so called "harassment" was in fact proven by Jones. Believe what you will, but remember, it is only an opinion. I do find it interesting that the so called "liberal media" was such an authoritative source for all the "free ride" that Clinton received during this whole mess. Oh, by the way...Roads to Moscow quite possibly is the finest song ever written. (my opinion only) Lurk mode resume. ----- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:16:14 -0400 From: Laurie Alice Eakes Subject: Re: Al(an) (0% Al by weight and volume) At 03:36 PM 10/22/99 -0700, Kevin K.Tice wrote: >Lurk mode off--- > > >When this thread started, the increase in traffic on the list soon got to an >IG level. I suspect that it has the same inflammitory potential. How lon have you been on this list? This is a friendly debate. It's not anywhere near the IG level in either vitriole or volume. Laurie Alice Eakes; "The Widow's Secret is fast-paced and a delight..." 4 stars Romantic times http://www.theromanceclub.com ----- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:26:45 -0700 (PDT) From: mousethief Subject: Re: Al(an) (0% Al by weight and volume) - --- Laurie Alice Eakes wrote: > > This is a friendly debate. It's not > anywhere near the IG level in either vitriole or volume. Yeah, this is about a .4 on the IG scale. Alex ===== O..O =o= http://homepages.go.com/~mousethief === ----- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:58:29 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marianne_M=E4der?= Subject: Re: Al???? Nah, Crystal asked a polite question - I.G. just exploded like a bomb... ----- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:19:05 -0400 From: 72132.3214@compuserve.com Subject: Bon Soiree... Just an "I'm still hanging around or in" sort of message. "As are we all" hopefully. Sylvia ----- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:38:40 -0400 From: SMorris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Off-topic No Al Nuclear Energy Something I've never said much about. I spent some time employed by British Nuclear Fuels Ltd. Despite all the adverse publicity this outfit is extremely good at what they do. Now we see Windmills everywhere. Someone has to be pulling our legs. All questions answered if I know the answers. Abuse will be ignored. Sylvia ----- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:43:10 -0400 From: Jolayne White Subject: Re: Husky Apology >but, please, take off your smug, self-righteous fingertips until you're >faced with the exact same situation.>> > All right, that's it, stop this this instant!! Even as the possibly wronged party, I refuse to be the cause of any more of this bickering! Laurie has already admitted on-list that she was a bit hard on me because I spoke without thinking about a subject that is sensitive for her. Apologies have already been made and accepted on both sides without any rancor whatsoever, so let's not get rancorous about whether or not there should have been rancor! If this keeps up I will write a letter to Al's management about what's going on in his name, and I will contact all of your ISP's to get you removed from them, and I will start my own list where no one is allowed to say anything without getting signed approvals in advance from 2/3 of its membership. And anyone who doesn't get any joke made on it will be placed on a pornography spam list until the world ends on January 1!! As our erstwhile "friend" would say, T firmly IC (but serious about the first part), Jolayne ----- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:09:27 -0700 (PDT) From: mousethief Subject: Re: Husky Apology - --- Jolayne White wrote: > > If this keeps up I will write a letter to Al's management about > what's going on in his name, and I will contact all of your ISP's > to get you removed from them, and I will start my own list AAAACCKKK! JOLAYNE IS IAN! JOLAYNE IS IAN! - -Alex the Strong ===== O..O =o= http://homepages.go.com/~mousethief === ----- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:19:08 -0700 From: "Bill Kerr" Subject: Jolayne's "threat" > And anyone who doesn't get any joke made on it will be > placed on a pornography spam list Could I just be put straight onto the pornography spam list? I'll give you a non .mil domain address to use. Bill Kerr Porno and C4I Systems ----- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:02:25 -0500 From: Jeff Richter Subject: Re: Jolayne's "threat" Bill Kerr wrote: > > > And anyone who doesn't get any joke made on it will be > > placed on a pornography spam list > > Could I just be put straight onto the pornography spam list? I'll give you > a non .mil domain address to use. > > Bill Kerr > Porno and C4I Systems Okay, that makes two people today who've caused me to spit soda across my desk. (Alex's discovery of Jolaynes real identity is the other.) It's nice that with all the BS going on around the list (and yes, I include myself in that) that we can still amuse each other. JSR ----- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:28:07 -0400 From: Wilma Dague Subject: Re: Jolayne's "threat" If Bill gets to be on a porno spam list without having to not get a joke, then I want to be on one too! Everett and Wilma Dague ----- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:34:01 -0400 From: Sylvia Morris <72132.3214@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Jolayne's threat? Bill Kerr wrote: > > > And anyone who doesn't get any joke made on it will be > > placed on a pornography spam list > >> Could I just be put straight onto the pornography spam list? I'll give you >> a non .mil domain address to use. > >> Bill Kerr >> Porno and C4I Systems >Okay, that makes two people today who've caused me to spit soda across >my desk. (Alex's discovery of Jolaynes real identity is the other.) That must be better than almost spitting spaghetti.... Anyone putting me on a porno-spam list will be 'shopped' to my ISP avec plaisir et grande vitesse.. Sylvia ----- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:59:25 -0400 From: "Fogarty, Bill" Subject: FW: Jolayne's threat? Greetings, > > And anyone who doesn't get any joke made on it will be > > placed on a pornography spam list > >> Could I just be put straight onto the pornography spam list? I'll give Am I the only person who is disgusted by the idea of the words "pornography" and "spam" being used in the same sentence. :^P Bill Fogarty P.S. Anyone who tries a "two great tastes that taste great together" joke gets whacked with an olive loaf. ----- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:21:37 -0700 (PDT) From: mousethief Subject: Re: FW: Jolayne's threat? - --- "Fogarty, Bill" wrote: > > Am I the only person who is disgusted by the idea of the words > "pornography" and "spam" being used in the same sentence. Well, you have to distinguish between pornography spam and spam pornography. Lewd photos of nude luncheon meat leave me a little cold, also. - -Alex ----- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:04:34 -0700 From: "Bill Kerr" Subject: RE: FW: Jolayne's threat? Especially now that the "classic" blue Spam can is no longer available. They've gone to plain cans with paper labels. Some catalog I got was selling clocks made out of some of the last manufacturing lot of actual painted Spam cans. Personally, I think they blew it when they got rid of the winding-key method of opening the cans. I always thought that was one of the fun parts of Spam (canned ham used to come that way, too. And sardines.) And, for the record, I want to be the first person to get credit for NOT combining this analogy with any comments relating to any scenes in the movie "American Pie." Bill Kerr METOC and C4I Systems SPAWAR System Center San Diego > Well, you have to distinguish between pornography spam and spam > pornography. Lewd photos of nude luncheon meat leave me a little > cold, also. ----- Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:12:18 EST From: Kimbis@aol.com Subject: Re: Sequiturs >Why is it that people have to say that depression is the "disease du jour" >while alcoholism and drug addiction are ho-hum everyday "normal" situations? Well, the thing about saying depression is the "disease du jour" is that it causes the condition to be misdiagnosed so much it causes harm to those who really ARE clinically depressed. The trendy misdiagnosis isn't limited to lay-people either, as some doctors are willing to perscribe whatever their clients think they want. SOME of the people seeking these medications don't even qualify as "a little blue". They just know that EVERYONE seems to be on anti-depressants, and THEY want them too. Which harms the people who really SHOULD be taking anti-depressants. It's a matter of finding COMPETENT help, not just someone who will give you the latest pill advertised in Newsweek. If someone is "down" because of a death/illness in the family, or something like that, it's NOT clinical depresssion. It's a normal reaction to a situation. Drugging someone to the gills isn't going to help them. It does more harm then good. Passing out pills when what is needed is supportive friends and family is not the answer. The secret is in finding a doctor willing to actually *work* with you rather then just handing you a perscription and a bill whether that is what you need or not. They are interested in their next boat payment, not your mental well being. >It's comments like yours and Kim's that keep people in the closet, as it >were, about depression and other mental illnesses. Hardly. I'm very much in favor of people who need help getting it, and have helped a number of people find competent help rather then pill pushers. Some people *do* need medication, but handing out prozac and other medications like tic-tacs is NOT the answer. Been there. Done that. Know that drugs are an easy, but not always correct, solution. As for Sylvia, I know a little bit more about what is happening then some of you. Sylvia is a good and trusted friend. What she needs right now is supportive people who understand and listen even when she rambles a bit because she's distracted. She knows she's got MY ear/eyes whenever she needs them ... anytime, day or night. - -- Kim -----